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Mighty mice: The most powerful force resisting new nuclear may be a legion of small, fast and simple microgeneration and efficiency projects

2.27.06   Amory Lovins, CEO, Rocky Mountain Institute

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    Two men on a wild and barren plain suddenly spy a huge bear charging towards them. One man immediately starts putting on his running shoes. “How futile!” the other exclaims, “you’ll never outrun that bear!” His companion drily replies: “I don’t need to outrun the bear.”

    In any race, it’s vital to understand whom you need to outrun and what it takes to win. Yet an incomplete picture of the competitive landscape may be the nuclear industry’s greatest impediment to sound strategic planning, profitable investment, and credible public discourse.

    This knowledge gap is understandable because the industry has been working so hard to achieve impressive progress in so many areas at once: operational consistency and reliability, simpler and cheaper designs, better inherent safety, streamlined siting and approvals, stronger government support, and other prerequisites for nuclear revival. But while these demanding tasks have taken so much attention, our bear has gained speed, approaching from behind.

    Steve Kidd, the World Nuclear Association’s head of strategy and research, asked in NEI (September 2005): “How can new nuclear power plants be financed?” He predicted this would “prove very challenging” in the private capital market, even though several studies found circumstances in which new nuclear build could compete with “building gas- or coal-powered generating capacity of similar magnitude.” Investors, he suggested, remain concerned about public opposition, siting and licensing, quick construction at predictable cost, safety, security, liability, nonproliferation, waste, decommissioning, and smooth operation. And he felt nuclear power’s economic merits would emerge if we had “power markets where different technologies can compete on a level playing field and where long-term investment in capacity is incentivised.”

    These issues remain important and challenging, yet the market reality is even more complex. Resolving all perceived risks wouldn’t ensure nuclear power’s market success. Rather, new nuclear plants and central coal- or gas-fired power plants are all uncompetitive with three other options whose status, prospects and value propositions are not well understood within the nuclear industry: certain decentralised renewables, combined-heat-and-power (CHP), and efficient end-use of electricity. In a rapidly evolving energy marketplace full of disruptive technologies, nuclear power’s biggest challenges are not political but economic.

    Most nuclear advocates consider the various ‘micropower’ and ‘negawatt’ (electricity saving) alternatives necessary and desirable but relatively small, slow, immature, uncertain, and futuristic – complementing central thermal stations without threatening their primacy. In this view, nuclear power will predominate within a balanced low-carbon electricity mix, and generation will remain overwhelmingly centralised, because nothing smaller could scale up enough to power a growing global economy. As the WNA website states: “Only nuclear power offers clean, environmentally friendly energy on a massive scale.” Yet this view is hard to reconcile with recently compiled industry data.

    DECENTRALISED COMPETITORS

    The World Alliance for Decentralised Energy’s (WADE’s) March 2005 compilation from industry equipment sales and project data estimated that decentralised resources in 2004 generated 52% of the electricity in Denmark, 39% in The Netherlands, 37% in Finland, 31% in Russia, 18% in Germany, 16% in Japan, 16% in Poland, 15% in China, 14% in Portugal, and 11% in Canada. WADE’s definition includes CHP gas turbines up to 120MWe, CHP engines up to 30MWe, CHP steam turbines only in China, windpower and photovoltaics (PVs), but no hydropower, no other renewables, no generators below 1MWe, and no end-use efficiency.

    Figure 1 shows the annual output of low- and no-carbon micropower compared with nuclear power. No hydroelectric dams over 10MWe are included. Average nuclear capacity factor (load factor) is assumed to rise linearly from 84.1% in 1982 to 88.5% in 2010. Up- and downratings, new units commissioned, and permanent retirements are shown consistently for all technologies.

    Figure 1: Worldwide electrical output of decentralised low- or no-carbon generators (except large hydro)

    This data shows that micropower has already eclipsed nuclear power in the global marketplace already. About 65% of micropower’s capacity and 77% of its output in 2004 was fossil-fuelled CHP, which was about two-thirds gas-fired, and emitted 30% to 80% less carbon (averaging at least 50% less) than the separate power plants and boilers or furnaces it replaced. The rest of the micropower was diverse renewables, whose operation, like nuclear power’s (neglecting enrichment), releases no fossil-fuel carbon. Micropower’s output lags its capacity by three years due to typically lower capacity factors for small hydro (~46%), windpower (~25-40%) and PVs (~17%) than for CHP (~83%), biofuelled generation (~70%) and geothermal (~75%).

    Worldwide, low- and no-carbon decentralised generators surpassed nuclear power’s total installed capacity in 2002 and its annual output in 2005. In 2004 they added 5.9 times as much net capacity and 2.9 times as much annual output as nuclear power. The respective industries project that in 2010, micropower will add 136-184 times as much capacity as nuclear power will add, depending on CHP, wind and PV estimates (see Figure 2). Such projections are quite uncertain, but qualitatively clear. After 2010, whether the ageing reactor fleet declines as projected by Schneider and Froggatt (see NEI June 2005, p36) or more slowly as predicted by the International Energy Agency (IEA), even with major new nuclear build in countries like China, micropower will continue to pull ahead.

    Figure 2 shows net capacity added by each technology in each year since 1990. Figure 2 also includes a leading indicator for nuclear power: construction starts through 2004. Their unknown size thereafter shouldn’t materially affect 2010 completions. In 2004, windpower just in Germany and Spain added 2GWe each, matching the average global net addition of nuclear capacity per annum (pa) during 2000-10. Worldwide nuclear construction starts will soon probably add fewer GWe pa than PV installations.

    Figure 2: Global additions of electrical generating capacity by year and technology

    These comparisons omit another key decentralised competitor – saved electricity – that is seldom properly tracked but clearly substantial. At constant capacity factor, the 2.0% and 2.3% decreases in US electricity consumed per dollar of GDP during 2003 and 2004 would respectively correspond to saving 14 and more than 16 peak GWe, plus 1GWe pa of utility load management resources added and used. That’s 6-8 times US utilities’ declared 2.2GWe of peak savings achieved in 2003 by demand-side management. Since the USA uses only one-quarter of global electricity, and more efficient end-use is a global trend, worldwide electrical savings almost certainly exceed global additions of micropower (24GWe in 2003, 28GWe in 2004). Global additions of supply-side plus demand-side decentralised electrical resources are thus already an order of magnitude larger than global net additions of nuclear capacity (4.7GWe in 2004).

    Few investors and policymakers realise this, because most official statistics under-report decentralised and non-utility-owned resources, show only physical energy supply, and pay little attention to drops in energy intensity, whatever their cause (in most countries, chiefly more efficient end-use technologies). Per dollar of GDP, US primary energy consumption has lately been falling by about 2.5% pa; electricity by 2.0% pa. Only 22% of the 1996-2005 increase in delivered US energy services was fuelled by increased energy supply, 78% by reduced intensity – yet the latter four-fifths of market activity remains dangerously invisible.

    That invisibility lately led US merchant firms to lose ~$100 billion by building ~200GWe of combined-cycle gas plants for which there was no demand.

    This calamity for investors could soon recur on a larger scale and not only in the power sector. The US Energy Policy Act of 2005 greatly increased subsidies and regulatory aid for energy supply whilst largely ignoring demand-side resources. Yet ‘negawatts’ expand as energy prices and as policies that have held per-capita electricity use flat for 30 years in California and are decreasing it in Vermont spread to other US states.

    Like micropower, efficiency tends to be installed more quickly than supplies. If it continues to reach customers and grab revenues first, it will glut markets, crash prices, and bankrupt producers, just as it did under similar conditions in the mid-1980s. This would intensify investors’ risk aversion.

    Many factors tug energy outcomes in diverse directions. Windpower, for example, is heavily subsidised in the UK where it has yet been slowed onshore by local opposition, and offshore by two years’ government debate on how to finance its links to the grid. Similarly, US windpower gets a production tax credit (PTC) but its erratic and brief renewals by Congress have repeatedly bankrupted leading wind turbine producers. Overall, the correlation between renewable installation rates and government subsidies is not clear-cut. Neither are per-kWh subsidies’ relative sizes for renewables versus central plants, particularly nuclear power. Nor is it obvious whether relative subsidies are more or less important than the barriers that in most countries still block fair competition. This analytic fog makes it dangerous to assume that micropower’s success is subsidy-driven, or that its obscure implementation obstacles are less important or tractable than nuclear’s familiar ones.

    A simpler explanation for micropower’s market success might be superior basic economics. Figure 3 supports this hypothesis by comparing the cost of a kWh delivered to the retail meter from various marginal sources.

    Figure 3: Nuclear power’s competitors on a consistent accounting basis. Levelised cost of delivered electricity or end-use efficiency (at 2.75¢/kWh delivery cost for remote sources).

    In concluding that nonhydro renewables are unsuitable “for large-scale power generation where continuous, reliable supply is needed,” the WNA commits two common fallacies: supposing that making large amounts of electricity requires large generating units, and forgetting that ceteris paribus many small units near customers are more reliable than fewer, bigger units far away. Central thermal stations are no longer the cheapest or most reliable source of delivered electricity, because generators now cost less than the grid and have become so reliable that 98-99% of US power failures originate in the grid. Thus the cheapest, most reliable power is typically produced at or near customers. Three-quarters of US residential and commercial customers use electricity at an average rate not exceeding 1.5 and 12kWe, respectively – severely mismatched to central plants’ GWe scale. The WNA acknowledges a debate about scale, but ignores its profound implications and assumes central plants will remain dominant. Prudent investors favour micropower.

    COMPARATIVE POTENTIAL

    Of course, if decentralised resources had little potential to meet the world’s rising needs for energy services, they’d be of minor competitive concern: one should worry about a bear, but hardly about a mouse. Yet a mighty swarm of mice is another matter. The modern literature suggests that decentralised resources’ collective practical potential has been understated, as if the stunning technological and economic advances in conventional energy supply didn’t apply to its rivals. To the contrary, such progress tends to be faster in decentralised resources. For example:

    • At less than the delivered cost of just operating a zero-capital-cost nuclear plant (~$0.04/kWh), potential US electricity savings range from two to four times nuclear power’s 20% share of the US electricity market, according to bottom-up assessments summarised by the Electric Power Research Institute (EPRI) and Rocky Mountain Institute’s joint Scientific American article (September 1990). EPRI’s Clark Gellings confirmed in 2005 that the US electric end-use efficiency resource is probably now even bigger and cheaper, because better mass-produced technologies more than offset savings already captured. Utility-specific data confirms a broad downward trend in the unit cost of ‘negawatts’.

    • CHP potential in industry and buildings is very large if regulators allow it. Waste-energy CHP alone is preliminarily estimated by Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory to have a technical potential nearly as large as today’s US nuclear capacity, though cost and feasibility are very site specific.

    • Modern windpower’s US potential on readily available rural land is at least twice national electrical usage.

    • Other renewable sources of electricity are also collectively important – small hydro, biomass power (especially CHP), geothermal, ocean waves, currents, solar-thermal, and PVs. These sources and windpower also tend to be statistically complementary, working well under different weather conditions. All renewables together (excluding big hydro), plus solar technologies that indirectly displace electric loads (daylighting, solar water heating, passive heating and cooling), have a practical economic potential many times total US electricity consumption – at least an order of magnitude greater than nuclear power provides today.

    • Even at such a scale, a diversified renewable portfolio needn’t raise land-use concerns. For example, a rather inefficient PV array covering half of a sunny area 160¥160km could meet all annual US electricity needs. In practice, since sunlight is distributed free, PVs would be integrated into building surfaces, and installed on roofs, over car parks, and along roads, both to save land and to make the power near loads. Specious claims persist comparing (say) the footprint of a nuclear reactor with the (generally miscalculated) land area of which a fraction – a few percent for wind turbines – is physically occupied by energy systems and infrastructure. In fact, total fuel cycle land use is roughly comparable for solar, coal and nuclear.

    Thus renewables clearly have a very large global potential. The IEA’s World Energy Outlook 2004 foresees a 2030 renewable potential of ~30,000TWh pa (less than a quarter of it from hydropower). Such massive production would become far easier with CHP and efficient end-use. It still wouldn’t be easy, but neither would central stations of similar output – especially for serving the two billion people not now on any grid.

    COMPARATIVE SPEED

    But might decentralised supply- and demand-side resources be too slow to deploy, requiring central stations to provide enough reliable power, quickly enough, to meet burgeoning demand? This widely held view seems inconsistent with observed market behaviour. As shown above, micropower and efficient end-use, despite many obstacles, are already adding an order of magnitude more GWe pa than nuclear power worldwide. Their brisk deployment reflects short lead times, modularity and economies of mass production (they’re more like cars than cathedrals); usually-mild siting issues (except in some unusual windpower cases); and the inherently greater speed of technologies deployable by many diverse market actors without complex regulatory processes, ponderous enterprises, or unique institutions.

    Of course every energy option faces specific obstacles, barriers, and hence risk of slow or no implementation at scale. Efficiency, for example, faces some 60-80 market failures, many arcane, that have left most of it unbought. Yet US electric intensity has declined at an unprecedented average rate of 1.5% pa since 1996 even though electricity is the form of energy most heavily subsidised, most prone to split incentives, least priced on the margin, and sold by distributors widely rewarded for selling more kWh. Such firms as DuPont and IBM routinely cut their energy intensity by 6% pa with attractive profits and no apparent constraints.

    Letting all decentralised resources really compete risks not a dry hole but a gusher. Just during 1982-85, when California’s three investor-owned utilities offered a relatively level playing field, fair competition elicited 23GWe of efficiency plus 21GWe of generation (13GWe of it actually bought) rising by 9GWe pa. The resulting glut, 144% of the 1984 peak load of 37GWe, forced bidding suspension in 1985, lest every fossil and nuclear plant be displaced (which in hindsight could have been valuable).

    Investors appreciate that diversification is wise but must be intelligent. The strategic virtue of a diversified portfolio doesn’t justify buying every technology or financial asset on offer. The sweeping claim that ‘we need every energy technology’ – as if we had infinite money and no need to choose – is often made but cannot withstand analysis. The WNA’s website doesn’t mention demand-side resources, and denies the existence of a large and compelling literature of nuclear-free, least-cost, long-term scenarios published over decades (in 1989, for example, Vattenfall published a roadmap for rapid economic growth, full nuclear phaseout, one-third power-sector CO2 reduction, and $1 billion pa cheaper energy services). But investors with similarly limited vision are in for a shock. As all options compete and as increasingly competitive power markets clear, any supply investment costlier than end-use efficiency or alternative supplies risks being stranded by retreating demand.

    OIL, CLIMATE AND STRATEGY

    A major argument often made for new nuclear build is oil displacement; yet this has already been largely completed. Only 3% of US electricity is made from oil and less than 2% of US oil makes electricity. Worldwide, these figures are around 7% and falling. Most of that oil, too, is residual, not distillate, and is burnt on relatively small grids by smaller plants with low capacity factors, unsuited to nuclear displacement. Both oil and fungible natural gas can be far more cheaply displaced by other means, mainly by doubled end-use efficiency.

    A more compelling need is displacing coal-fired electricity to protect the earth’s climate. Yet nuclear power’s dubious competitive economics could make it counterproductive, for four reasons:

    • Most of the carbon displacement should come from end-use efficiency, because it’s profitable – cheaper than the energy it saves – and quick to deploy.

    • End-use efficiency should save not just coal but also oil, particularly in transport. Comprehensive energy efficiency addresses 2.5 times as much CO2 emission as any electricity-only initiative.

    • Supply-side carbon displacements should come from a diverse portfolio of short-lead-time, mass-producible, widely applicable and accessible, benign, readily sited, rapidly deployable resources.

    • The total portfolio of carbon displacements should be both fast and effective.

    This last point highlights a troublesome implication of Figure 3’s cost comparison. Buying a costlier option, like nuclear power, instead of a cheaper one, like ‘negawatts’ and micropower, displaces less carbon per dollar spent. This opportunity cost of not following the least-cost investment sequence – the order of economic and environmental priority – complicates climate protection. The indicative costs in Figure 3 (neglecting any differences in the energy embodied in manufacturing and supporting the technologies) imply that we could displace coal-fired electricity’s carbon emissions by spending $0.10 to deliver any of the following:

    • 1.0kWh of new nuclear electricity at its 2004 US subsidy levels and costs.

    • 1.2-1.7kWh of dispatchable windpower at zero to actual 2004 US subsidies and at 2004-2012 costs.

    • 0.9-1.7kWh of gas-fired industrial cogeneration or ~2.2-6.5kWh of building-scale trigeneration (both adjusted for their carbon emissions), or 2.4-8.9kWh of waste-heat cogeneration burning no incremental fossil fuel (more if credited for burning less fuel).

    • From several to at least 10kWh of end-use efficiency.

    The ratio of net carbon savings per dollar to that of nuclear power is the reciprocal of their relative cost, corrected for gas-fired CHP’s carbon emissions (assumed here to be three-fold lower than those of the coal-fired power plant and fossil-fuelled boiler displaced). As Bill Keepin and Greg Kats put it in Energy Policy (December 1988), based on their still-reasonable estimate that efficient use could save about seven times as much carbon per dollar as nuclear power, “every $100 invested in nuclear power would effectively release an additional tonne of carbon into the atmosphere” – so, counting that opportunity cost, “the effective carbon intensity of nuclear power is nearly six times greater than the direct carbon intensity of coal fired power.” Whatever the exact ratio, their finding remains qualitatively robust even if nuclear power becomes far cheaper and its competitors don’t.

    Speed matters too: if nuclear investments are also inherently slower to deploy, as market behaviour indicates, then they don’t only reduce but also retard carbon displacement. If climate matters, we must invest judiciously, not indiscriminately, to procure the most climate solution per dollar and per year. Empirically, on both criteria, nuclear power seems less effective than other abundant options on offer. The case for new nuclear build as a means of climate protection thus requires reexamination.

    Micropower and its natural partner, efficient end-use, have surpassed and outpaced central stations despite many obstacles. Being diverse, ubiquitous, plentiful, widely available, largely benign, and popular, they are also hard to stop. To be sure, much work remains to purge the artificial barriers to true competition between all ways to save or produce energy, regardless of which kind they are, what technology or fuel they use, how big they are, or who owns them. But such a free market, for which Kidd rightly calls, seems increasingly unlikely to favour nuclear power. Rather, the economic fundamentals of distributed resources promise an ever-faster shift to very efficient end-use combined with diverse generators the right size for their task. That shift could render insufficient or even irrelevant the resolution of the perceived non-economic risks that preoccupy the nuclear industry.

    The better the industry and its investors understand this, the more likely they are to fulfill reasonable expectations, apply their talents effectively, and help achieve the global energy, development, and security goals to which we all aspire.

    Research and comments by Rocky Mountain Institute colleagues Nathan Glasgow, Ken Wicker, Kyle Datta, Dr Joel Swisher PE, and John Anderson PE and by many other colleagues are gratefully acknowledged.

    This article was first published in Nuclear Engineering International. Appendix:

    COMPARATIVE COST

    The standard studies to which Steve Kidd referred (MIT, University of Chicago, IAEA, OECD, amongst others) all compare only the busbar costs of central stations – nuclear, coal, and combined-cycle gas. The assumptions and findings of MIT’s 2003 analysis, The Future of Nuclear Power, are adopted here. However, to compare central stations (or remote windpower) fairly with onsite CHP and efficiency one must add to the former a delivery cost, conservatively assumed here to be $0.0275/kWh – the 1996 embedded average for US investor-owned utilities.

    The MIT study found that a new 1GWe advanced LWR with a 40-year life, 85% capacity factor and merchant financing has a busbar cost of $0.0702/kWh (in 2004$), equivalent to $0.0977/kWh delivered. If its capital cost fell by 25% (from $2094/kWe to $1570/kWe overnight cost, compared to ~$2200/kWe for the new Finnish plant, an apparent loss-leader), its construction time fell from five to four years, the capital market attached zero nuclear risk premium and fuel plus O&M cost dropped from $0.0157 to $0.0136/kWh (the lowest-quartile recent US value), the delivered cost could decrease to as little as $0.0715/kWh.

    Imposing a high price on carbon emissions ($100/t CO2) could raise the nominal cost of new delivered coal power from $0.072/kWh to $0.097/kWh (burning $1.33/GJ coal), and that of new combined-cycle gas power from $0.067-0.086/kWh to $0.078-0.098/kWh (at a levelised gas price of $3.6-7.6/GJ, equivalent to escalating those initial constant-$ gas prices at 5% pa). Figure 3 shows how these changes could shift the central plants’ relative costs.

    However, the standard studies ignore decentralised competitors, perhaps in the erroneous belief they’re too small or slow to matter. Let’s consider three kinds. (There are more, notably the diverse non-windpower renewables whose observed uptake bespeaks economic merit, but to avoid complex site-specific comparisons, and because windpower’s siting and intermittence make it a difficult case, let’s use it as a surrogate for all decentralised renewables).

    Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory reported in August 2005 that more than 2.7GWe of US windpower projects installed during 1999-2005 had busbar costs, including PTC, ranging from $0.015 to $0.058/kWh (excluding one outlier), with a capacity-weighted average of $0.0337/kWh. Western US utilities’ resource plans use levelised costs as low as $0.023/kWh, and the lowest 2003 nonfirm wind energy contract price was $0.029/kWh, but we conservatively assume $0.030-0.035/kWh. The 2005 spike in wind turbine prices, 25-50% above 2003’s, appears to reflect temporary imbalances: spot shortages that have filled all makers’ books through 2006 are due largely to PTC-related postponement of US projects from 2004 to 2005-6, whilst high steel prices will also boost central-station costs. On the contrary, industry and government expect windpower’s costs to fall by ~$0.01/kWh during 2003-12 – more than the $0.0086/kWh levelised post-tax value of the PTC. For illustration, Figure 3 optionally adds back windpower’s PTC but not the pre-2005 subsidies received by central stations, especially nuclear power. Those nuclear subsidies are complex, diverse and disputed but the most authoritative independent US expert, Doug Koplow, estimates ~$0.0079-0.0422/kWh, increased by another ~$0.034-0.040/kWh in the Energy Policy Act of 2005 for at least the next 6GWe ordered.

    For comparability with central stations, we assume that making windpower fully dispatchable costs $0.009/kWh – two-thirds for hydroelectric or other firming, one-third for grid integration. We conservatively adopt that extra cost, higher than most western US utilities pay or assume, partly in case some remote sites need extra transmission.

    Conversely, central stations are assumed to incur no reserve-margin nor spinning-reserve costs, though their larger unit sizes make them tend to fail in larger chunks and for longer. Intermittence does need attention and sound engineering, but it’s not unique to renewables: every source of electricity is intermittent, differing only in why they fail, how often, how big, how long, and how predictably. Grid operators’ recent assessments confirm that windpower’s intermittence even at high penetrations – about 14% for Germany, 20-25% for several US grids, and 30% for west Denmark – would be manageable at modest cost, typically a few $/MWh, if renewables are properly diversified, dispersed, forecasted, and integrated with the existing grid and with demand response.

    The WNA’s latest (February 2005) renewables webpage disagrees: it ignores technological and siting diversity and demand response. The WNA therefore concludes that intermittent renewables “cannot directly be applied as economic substitutes for coal or nuclear power” and will require “reliable duplicate sources of electricity, or some [unavailable] means of electricity storage on a large scale” – “almost 100%” backup – raising windpower’s cost to twice the “generation cost” of nuclear or coal.

    Highly intermittent supplies were long assumed to be limited to 5-10% of grid capacity, then 20%; the WNA claims 10-20%. Yet with better forecasting, grid integration, distribution automation and smart power electronics such supposed limits continue to recede. Windpower penetrations today are 20% in Denmark and up to 30% in three German states. On windy, light-load days in certain regions of Denmark, Germany, and Spain, windpower can exceed 100% of load, foreseeably and manageably. Yet windpower’s grid integration costs are proving negligible or very modest. The corresponding costs of integrating other resources, all with nonzero forced outage rates, are of course already borne unnoticed. Nor are “reliable duplicate sources” proposed for nuclear plants, which in 2003 suffered prolonged large-scale curtailments in Europe’s heatwave, restart after the USA/Canada blackout and Tokyo Electric’s safety shutdown.

    CHP is a far more conventional and reliable resource already common in many countries. Figure 3 shows US costs for three arrangements, the first two based on actual projects by a leading US developer, Primary Energy, with 0.9GWe of operating projects. Conventional gas-fired combined-cycle industrial CHP – with levelised gas prices of $5.4-8.7/GJ, a 10% pa return over 25 years, and unit sizes of 28-64MWe – delivers new electricity for $0.038-0.073/kWh. Recovered industrial heat previously wasted can be worth more than CHP’s other operating and capital costs, making its net cost of delivered electricity negative (-$0.021 to -$0.047/kWh) in the three 60-160MWe projects evaluated. We graph instead their positive all-in electricity price ($0.011-$0.026/kWh), with the possibility of costs up to ~$0.04/kWh in less favourable cases. Well-integrated into a commercial building and with demand-side management, gas-fired ‘trigeneration’ of power, heat, cooling, and perhaps other services can deliver electricity at a net cost around $0.01-0.03/kWh, or up to about $0.07/kWh with sub-optimised designs.

    The final major competitor shown in Figure 3 is efficient end-use of electricity. Carefully evaluated programmes of many US utilities have yielded reliable, durable, and accurately predicted savings at societal costs ~$0.01/kWh or less in commercial and industrial retrofits. Less optimised programmes or those emphasising homes can incur average costs up to ~$0.03-0.05/kWh. Alternatively, integrative design techniques well demonstrated in many buildings and industrial sectors often achieve very large savings at reduced capital cost, hence at a negative ‘cost of saved energy’ (investment divided by the discounted stream of lifetime electricity savings).
    See www.rmi.org/sitepages/pid171.php#E05-08 for documention.

    CONSERVATISMS

    Decentralised resources’ cost advantage (Figure 3) is robust even against implausible improvements in central stations’ technology or regulation. For example, if some new sort of fission or fusion reactor could provide free steam to the turbine, the remainder of the central thermal plant would still cost too much to compete. And the cost comparisons shown have two other major conservatisms favouring central plant: they reflect a static snapshot of competitors’ costs, not (save one windpower illustration) their continuing rapid decline in real cost; and they count as zero all but one (thermal integration) of the 207 ‘distributed benefits’ described in Rocky Mountain Institute’s book, Small Is Profitable: The Hidden Economic Benefits of Making Electrical Resources the Right Size. The market is increasingly counting those benefits which collectively boost value ~10-fold, enough to flip most investment decisions.

    This increase in value has three separate causes, excluding such externalities as environmental and social benefits. The most important distributed benefits come from financial economics:

    • Small, fast modules incur less financial risk than big, slow projects. In a typical substation support application, this can raise the tolerable capital cost of a distributed resource, like PVs, by about 2.7-fold.

    • Renewables avoid the financial risk of volatile fuel prices, raising windpower’s typical value by about $0.01-0.02/kWh.

    These and other financial-economics benefits typically boost decentralised projects’ economic value by about an order of magnitude if they’re renewable, ~3-5-fold if they’re not.

    Better known are such electrical engineering benefits as avoided grid costs and losses, increased reliability and resilience, more graceful fault management, free reactive power control (from DC sources inverted to AC), and longer distribution equipment life (by means of reduced heating and tapchanging). Together, these typically increase value by ~2-3-fold – more if the distribution system is congested and new distribution capacity can be deferred or avoided, or if especially reliable or high-quality power is required. Finally, scores of diverse ‘miscellaneous’ benefits typically about redouble economic value – more if ‘waste’ heat can be recaptured.

    For information on purchasing reprints of this article, contact Tim Tobeck ttobeck@energycentral.com.
    Copyright 2010 CyberTech, Inc.
     

    Readers Comments

    Date Comment
    Ferdinand E. Banks
    2.27.06
    But Amory, we in Sweden don't want to resist new nuclear - where we includes a group called 'environmentalists in favor of nuclear'. We want a lot more of it, and as soon as possible. Incidentally, in my new energy economics textbook, I point out what happened in Finland when they decided that they needed more electricity: although Finland might have obtained gas from Norway and Russia, which are close by, they resisted nutty arguments to that effect. The same holds true for renewables. And why did they choose nuclear? One reason might be that they play good ice hockey in that country, and in addition, if you examine UN statistics about schoolchildren, you'll find that the children in Finland are just about at the top. Of course, a better reason is that the voters in that country prefer cheap power to the other kind.

    Charles Petterson
    2.27.06
    This certainly is a comprehensive comparison of options. I am curious about one thing. If I have a natural gas burning CC or CHP, do I pay the same CO2 emmissions tax as a coal burning plant? How about if I am burning biomass?

    With the exception of hydro, wind and pv, all of the other "green" options emit CO2, unless there is something lacking in my chemistry education.

    Do all of these decentralized plants operate unattended and without any periodic maintenance needs?

    I was put off by oyur statement, "On windy, light-load days in certain regions of Denmark, Germany, and Spain, windpower can exceed 100% of load, foreseeably and manageably." There are too many contingincies involved. I have been in all of those countries, but I don't live there. Where I live the wind is erratic, and is most likely to be calm or light when the power is most needed, i.e. sultry summer days or frigid winter days.

    There are thousands of small utilities and large end-users that could be utilizing these amazing distributed power sources. Yet, very few of them do. If the economics are so compelling, where are the buyers?

    Guess what? Those aren't the days that customers care about. Consumers want 100% capacity regardless of the relative load and whether or not the wind is blowing.

    Len Gould
    2.28.06
    I would "buy" your thesis if I thought that barring any further construction of nuclear generation resulted also in no further construction of new coal-fired or gas-fired generation, but it won't, will it? And that's not even in your plan. Just a(nother) thinly disguised anti-nuclear diatribe. Yawn.

    John K. Sutherland
    2.28.06
    Lovins states:- ‘In any race, it’s vital to understand whom you need to outrun and what it takes to win. Yet an incomplete picture of the competitive landscape may be the nuclear industry’s greatest impediment to sound strategic planning, profitable investment, and credible public discourse. ‘

    This same comment is exactly the impediment that dogs every energy plan for the future; at least according to my crystal ball readings, but less so for nuclear power at this time than any other rational energy option. One just has to look at the crazy roller coaster ride of premature gas facility construction and use; the equally ludicrous sleight-of-hand windmill economics; supply/demand difficulties; politically manipulated pricing and shortages; middle east conflicts; OPEC instability and manipulation; and the looming issue of carbon taxing with coal, oil, or gas along with fears of alleged Global Climate Change.

    This discourse of Lovins and co. with extrapolations of energy scenarios that are out of date the moment they are produced, is the same woolly smoke and mirrors – getting people tangled up in the misleading minutiae, slick number manipulation, and bafflegab - that has long characterized the RMI.

    Keep up the good work Amory!

    John K. Sutherland.

    Don Giegler
    2.28.06
    Amory:

    40 GWe by 2021 and this but one national entity! Perhaps you wish to correct some of the fractured, outdated misinformation about your favorite rodents with:

    BEIJING - Feb 27 China will build 32 nuclear plants over the next 15 years in an effort to meet the country's burgeoning energy needs - more than doubling its reliance on the controversial source, the government said Monday.

    Click below to follow this link

    http://www.energycentral.com/global/nsar.cfm?li=p&id=9832836

    Your take on California's '84 & '85 stranded cost debacle is most amusing given its hindsight afterthought. Those cheap nuclear Kw-hrs got replaced by some very expensive non-nuclear Kw-hrs during the state's 2000-2001 "electric energy crisis". As 20 year license extensions begin amortizing your nuclear capital cost shibboleth out of existence, which way will the mice run?

    Don

    Paul Primavera
    2.28.06
    Amory Lovins' standpoint has been debunked previously:

    NEI Nuclear Notes: Rod Adams vs. Amory Lovins < http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/2005/07/rod-adams-vs-amory-lovins.html >

    Opposing view < http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2005/07/opposing-view.html >

    Lovins failed gospel < http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2005/07/lovins-failed-gospel.html >

    Warren Buffett versus Amory Lovins < http://atomicinsights.blogspot.com/2005/07/warren-buffett-versus-amory-lovins.html >

    Rocky Mountain’s Real-World Data Blunders http://neinuclearnotes.blogspot.com/2005/07/rocky-mountains-real-world-data.html

    The Truth About Hydrogen: Reply to Amory Lovins < http://www.mnforsustain.org/energy_truth_about_hydrogen_wilson.htm >

    As Len Gould wrote: "Just a(nother) thinly disguised anti-nuclear diatribe. Yawn."

    James Hopf
    2.28.06
    I won’t engage in a long discussion of all the article’s economic calculations that I can’t understand. (A zero capital cost nuclear plant would result in ~1.5 cents/kW-hr, not 4.0 cents/kW-hr, for example, and a $1570/kW capital cost nuclear plant would result in ~4.6 cents/kW-hr, not 7.15 Cents.) Instead, I’ll just reiterate the point made by Charles. If these small-scale conservation, renewable, and CHP projects were so economical then why aren’t more of them being built. I think there are real-world limitations to these options that the author is choosing not to discuss. The fact that many of these small-scale and CHP projects rely completely on natural gas is a real issue.

    Also, if all types of large-scale central generation projects are uneconomical (be they coal, nuclear, or gas), then why are utilities moving forward with ~50 GW of new coal capacity? Utilities are also moving forward with ~12-19 new nuclear plants. The fact that only 6-8 of these plants will get most of the Energy Bill subsidies does not appear to be affecting their plans.

    Many of the numbers and studies referred to by Lovins (such as the MIT study) are already out of date, especially with respect to natural gas prices. The only energy source that nuclear will have trouble competing with economically is coal, and that’s only if we continue to do nothing about its massive air pollution and CO2 emissions. IGCC coal is as expensive as nuclear, and any notion of coal w/ sequestration will be much more expensive.

    As an aside, I also like how hydro is included as a renewable source whenever overall share of generation is discussed, but then not included when discussing annual percentage increases in renewable generation. Then there’s not dividing by three (at least!) when comparing renewable capacity to traditional/nuclear capacity.

    I say, let’s just put in place policies that limit or discourage pollution, energy imports, and CO2 emissions, and then let the market decide which way to proceed. If this were done, the nuclear industry would be quietly confident of the outcome. The fact is, in order to substantially improve our situation with respect to the environment and energy security, we will need a whole lot of help (and growth) from both nuclear and the “mighty mice”.

    Rod Adams
    3.6.06
    I might agree with the main point of the article - smaller, distributed power generation may be more economical than centralized power plants for new capacity - if Mr. Lovins is willing to include nuclear powered machines that fall into the same power output category as his current definition of "micro" power plants.

    His definition "includes CHP gas turbines up to 120MWe, CHP engines up to 30MWe". Our current planned capacities for Adams Engines (TM) are covered by that definition.

    If unwilling to admit that uranium - which has been supplying the heat in machines producing power at those levels for more than 50 years - cannot compete with natural gas, then I will be forced to remain convinced that Amory Lovins is as much of a gas advocate (salesman) as an anti-nuclear proponent.

    Rod Adams, Editor, Atomic Insights

    Chuck Steiner
    3.6.06
    Our mighty swarm of CHP biomass mice are going to eat both coal and nuclear, as well as wind, hydro, PV, and gas itself ( see www.watersmart.com). Dr. Lovins has done his homework very well. Get ready to enjoy lesser electricity and fuel prices along with a cooler world. A new energy policy is about to be introduced by simple default. Chuck Steiner

    George Kamburoff
    3.6.06
    Sorry, Amory, it looks as if the Uranium Mafia has attacked en masse. You can't blame them - they had dreams of unlimited electricity, of being the technical Good Guys, with high esteem and even better pay.

    Now, sobering reality has tarnished the lustre of energy "too cheap to meter", and sometimes I wonder how its proponents can rationalize leaving radioactive detritus for future generations to deal with. It seems to be the ultimate selfishness.

    Yes, we will eventually live again within the means of our environment - but not until we are forced to do so, or when it becomes most profitable.

    Len Gould
    3.7.06
    I thought "leaving radioactive detritus for future generations to deal with. " was the object of all those who've opposed fuel re-processing as is done in eg. France?

    Promise me no further announcements of new coal-fired dirt-burners, and I'll stop supporting nuclear. Do I have your word on it?

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.7.06
    I think that what George Kamburoff is against is ADEQUATE electricity that is CHEAPER than electricity from other sources. This is what they once had in Sweden, and fewer people were more impressed with what the Swedes had achieved on the energy scene than Dr Lovins, although he thought that improvements were possible if a nuclear retreat was initiated as soon as possible. Unfortunately, instead of him listening to the Swedes explain why he was mistaken, they rushed to listen to him.The result is that the electricity price is now breaking all records.

    Ed Trottier
    3.7.06
    A few general thoughts, with no attempt to respond to other commenters: The US "problems" with nuclear power are political, not technical. First, of course, was the "explosion" issue, followed by "the china syndrome," followed by "emergency evacuation," and lately "nuclear waste." All this piling on has accomplished the goal of running up the cost/uncertainty of US nuclear plants, to the point of eliminating the tangible benefits of "clean, safe, reliable, economical." Political pressure on the US NRC has led to FEMA having a veto over emergency evacuation plans, for example. Bending over to be "fair" to the looney moonbats has lead to extended hearings (more delays), until construction times (for those not abondoned) have run to between 10 and 15 years. Meanwhile, of course, Korea builds a nearly identical US model in less than 6 years, routinely. We (US Gov't) may have given the industry a black eye with Yucca Mtn (trust me, it ain't NEVER going to accept high level waste), but hand-wringing over waste is just the latest "anti" card in the deck (see above). Someone, somewhere needs to comment on the "spinning reserve" issue for these "alternative" sources. You know, what does the utility do for electrical supply when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow? Speaking of blowhards, did anyone miss the delicious hypocracy of Teddy Kennedy's "not in my backyard" roadblock for the Nantucket wind project? Gotta love it.

    Ed Trottier Roanoke (Smith Mtn Lake), VA

    Dick Glick
    3.7.06
    Sorry to be repetitive whenever this topic is proffered but here goes anyway – open your eyes and ears, read and listen! Comments concerned with alternatives are focused and biased by the fact that the vast majority of scientists and engineers now examining this issue -- are from parts of the America's and Europe that find it difficult to consider conversions outside of biomass waste. The economically viable, appropriate regions for growing biomass for bioconversion are in tropical and semi-tropical areas. Brazil and much of South America could provide as much renewable methane – through anaerobic fermentation of biomass grown specifically and economically – as Brazil does now in the production of ethanol (this is not a cure!) – to provide much of the energy needed for sensible distributed CHP activities.

    As someone who has explored this aspect of biomass conversion for more than 25 years, probably from a somewhat unusual external point of view -- as a university professor of physical chemistry -- one very important aspect of bioconversion of appropriate feedstocks employs using methanogenic anaerobic fermentation that, as the DOE indicated some 10 years ago, is proven technology. Dick Glick www.CorpFutRes.com

    Todd McKissick
    3.7.06
    Ed Trottier writes, "Someone, somewhere needs to comment on the "spinning reserve" issue for these "alternative" sources. You know, what does the utility do for electrical supply when the sun don't shine and the wind don't blow?"

    Ok, I'll take that one. While there are a number of 'potentially' feasable options to support wind and PV, how about considering the two non-hydro alternative sources that make the most sense. I'm referring to Anerobic Digestion of societal waste and Solar Thermal electric generation. Those are never seriously considered because they DO provide enough capacity and reliability and 'spinning reserve' that everyone wants. It just amazes me how such smart people can consistantly turn a blind eye to the answer they keep searching for.

    These two also have two major benefits that are never discussed. 1) They are unaffected by market fuel prices or associated price fluctuations and 2) They can be rapidly distributed to enormous markets instantly (in energy industry terms). You want 1000 MW of energy? wait 10+ years for a nuclear plant and deal with fuel in / fuel out issues... or put an industry to work manufacturing solar thermal plants (small or medium) and another one for recouping dairy/swine/municipal waste energy. Both of these are POSITIVE ROI scenerios and can be market driven without subsidies now. They are green, reliable, sustainable, energy independant, profitable, they put people to work and they are currently getting installed at a rapid pace. Ignoring that fact doesn't make them go away.

    Oh, did I mention they generate 24/7 on demand?

    I also find it very curious that these two are least supported by the grants and government research touted as making such great progress.

    Len Gould
    3.7.06
    "I also find it very curious that these two are least supported by the grants and government research touted as making such great progress. "

    Worth repeating for sure. eg. NREL has (?been told to?) stop(ped) supporting research into anaerobic digestion methane and solar thermal, because these are considered "not economically viable", yet huge research dollars are continually sunk into PV, wind, wave, tidal, mice in hamster wheels. Presumably more viable? ha ha.

    In discussing anaerobic digester methane, WaterSmart Environmental states: "Continuation funding was ultimately terminated when it was officially determined that algal biodiesel could not be produced economically. Even though every one of the past NREL success stories still requires subsidy support for their marketplace use the ASP program was killed for the same reason. Makes one wonder whether its success had the king worried." http://watersmart.com/media/WP_Economic_Development_Through_Biomass_Waste_To_Energy_Technology.pdf

    Len Gould
    3.7.06
    Also noteworthy is NREL does still support "energy from waste coal" as a renewable energy source. More of same.

    Len Gould
    3.7.06
    Or Iogen, at www.iogen.ca, a small Ottawa company I've watched for a few years. 4 yrs ago they were all excited about an enzyme they'd developed to produce bio-diesel from agricultural waste. Were talking about wheat straw / corn stover replacing imported oil when it was $30/bbl, because the oil separated automatically from the process, didn't need distillation. Cheap. Built a test plant. Then they were taken over by Shell, and now the only thing they talk about is Ethanol. What happened to the bio-diesel? Were the bugs not patentable? Website has no explanation.

    Hans Nicolaisen
    3.7.06
    I've known and been good friends with Amory for over thirty years, though it's been years since we've gotten together and had a good talk. So, I'll make a few comments - most of which Amory probably won't like if he checks back in here to read what's been said.

    First of all, and if I've read what he wrote correctly, it looks like he's proposing that natural gas displace proposed nuclear. While I'm no fan of nuclear, neither am I a fan of increased reliance on gas, much of which would be imported over the time span proposed. US and Canadian gas have already peaked. US in the early '70's.

    It's sounding all too much like Amory's well meant proposal in the 70's to use oil as a transition fuel to the soft energy path. That didn't work out and I'm not sure natural gas should now be proposed to do the same.

    One thing to keep in mind about Amory... he's a physicist, a theoretical physicist as I remember, and picked up some economics along the way. He's brilliant, really absolutely brilliant. Everything he proposes would work, except for the fact that he seems to have no idea of the social, political, and business considerations that get in the way. That's been his major stumbling block.

    But, what he proposes as far as distributed energy, CHP, CHCP, increased end use efficiency (negawatts,) etc. will work. And, as he says, it will be faster and cheaper than centralized alternatives. It's just how to get there in an era that still values bigger as better.

    And Amory, figure out a way to do it with getting on even more dependence on natural gas. Please.

    For the rest of you folks; go easy on the criticism. Amory's a good dude.

    John K. Sutherland
    3.8.06
    Hans, Brilliant, in an Einsteinien sense, or brilliant in a P.T. Barnum sense? Briliant people take care with both facts and perspective if they wish to be listened to. Many of the adverse comments above, and my earlier familiarity with the devious intent of a report by Keepin and Kats of RMI, and ongoing similar efforts, point to a devious intent that is far short of Brilliant.

    John K. Sutherland.

    Hans Nicolaisen
    3.8.06
    John, As I said above, I've known Amory well for over thirty years - both as a friend, and sometimes colleage. From the friend part I can say with absolute certainty that Amory doesn't have a devious bone in his body. This isn't to say that he can't be wrong sometimes, and overly optimistic at other times. But devious, never. No one person ever has all the right answers, but many, if not most, of Amory's proposals are worth serious consideration. I think it's as much an institutional hangup as anything that prevents us from seeing some of the light.

    This is particularly true when it comes to considering smaller scale decentralized, or distributed, generation with CHP an CHCP. I don't know about your state, but here in Maine we're getting 31% of heat input, out as electricity - with the rest wasted. Since 1960 Maine has improved overall generation efficiency from 29% to 31%, and that's with a significant contribution from hydro. Pretty abysmal.

    One of these days I hope we start matching demands for electricty and heat and cooling a little more closely.

    PS. I got a mail from Amory this morning correcting me on oil as a transition. It was gas, fluidized bed coal, and cogen in the primary. I don't know where I got oil into my head. Also, my antipathy to more reliance on gas is really only because of our experience here in Maine with it. I'm strictly provincial these days. (grin)

    Peter Platell
    3.9.06
    Ferdinand Banks

    No we don’t want to have more large centralised plan economic technology in Sweden. At least we who believe in innovations and free market forces competition. Nuclear power is so far only possibly to use in large scale. Large scale and monopoly wires does not benefit the mankind, only the monopoly oligarks.

    Indeed there is hardly no other better way to supply 100 MW 8700 hours per year to such industry that really needs high exergy, that is, electricity with nuclear power. However, there is on the other hand hardly any more far fetched way to heat and cool a building with electric resistant radiator and refrigeration compressor power with electricity produced in a large centralised power station. Improvements of geoexchange technology and low exergy approach in the buildings will reduce the need of electricity almost completely. The small electricity need in a low exergy buildings will preferably be generated with small –scale (Micro power ) CHP using local available fuel. The intermittent and diluted renewable does not easy fit the large scale supply business model but very well for small-scale decentralised demand side models.

    Now it is cold in Sweden and the electric consuming business is sad because electricity price increase. This is not strange because we heat our buildings with electricity. The electric prices will increase further which is nothing to be surprised about. When financing large structure with tax money and then deregulates this monopoly business it is very easy for every manager to increase revenues through the monopoly wires. The next step in the energy history will be a situation where large-scale energy business will face real free market forces embodied as an array of diversified decentralised generation technology.

    Peter Platell

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.10.06
    Peter Platell

    Some years ago a student newspaper in Lund called me the Mohammed Ali of economics (i.e. nationalekonomi). They must have heard me telling people that I consider myself the best economics teacher in the world - just as Philip Seymour Hoffman once announced that he was the best actor.

    In any event, I would have preferred being called the Joe Louis of nationalekonomi, because anybody who can add and subtract knows that Joe Louis was the greatest of all the heavyweights.

    Now let's see what we've got here. For years Sweden produced electricity at or close to the lowest cost in the world. That low cost was reflected in comparatively low prices. At present the electricity price is exploding upward, as everybody who can read the conservative Swedish papers (e.g. Svenska Dagbladet and Dagens Industri) knows. More important, neither those papers nor the liberal Swedish TV makes a secret of the FACT that electric deregulation is the cause, because as I have written in the first chapter of my new energy economics textbook, the common denominator of electric deregulation in most if not all countries is a decline in physical investment (in generating capacity).

    The best economics teacher in the world predicted all this years ago. He also pointed out that it was a very very bad mistake to play Amory Lovins type games with an industry that - together with a highly effective educational system - gave Sweden one of the highest living standards in the world, as well as a lovely quality-of-life. What about this 'exergy' that you are talking about? I don't know anything about it and don't intend to find out anything about it - not because it sounds crank, but because I want things the way they used to be, and could easily be again: inexpensive and reliable power that can provide energy-intensive Swedish industry - or what will remain of it - with the incentive to remain in this country rather than moving to Pago-Pago or the Peoples Republic of Guadacanal.

    Let me close with something that the great Bill Tilden once said: always change a losing game, and NEVER change a winning game. The winning game in this case was a regulated electric sector. It wasn't perfect, but look at what happened when they changed it.

    Jim Harding
    3.10.06
    James Hopf has some trouble with Amory's math on nuclear power. He shouldn't - it's pretty straightforward and drawn more or less directly from the MIT Future of Nuclear Power study. But you must read ABL closely. Yes, the fuel and O&M cost of a reactor is about 1.5 cents/kWh. He would, in fact, say that zero capital cost nuclear reactor would cost exactly that number. Instead, he says - as the MIT study does - that the overall cost is closer to 7 cents, with no additional capital risk premium for building a reactor. I'd recommend reading the MIT study if this doesn't make sense.

    Jim Harding

    Peter Platell
    3.11.06
    Hi again Ferdinand and all other

    Of course the high electricity prices is a consequence of the deregulation of the monopoly energy business in Sweden as well as in California. Nothing else was expected either but this is good things because then will venture capital get interested in energy business, which otherwise is considered as total uninteresting business. Regarding Swedish economy correct me if I am wrong in the following. Sweden was one of the richest countries in the world until the beginnings of the 70’s. That wealth was based on export companies that in turn was based on innovations ( SKF, AGA, Ericsson ABB etc.). These companies successfully product created a big tax base and unfolds the possibilities for Sweden to consider being a nuclear power country from defends point of view. That strive financed the basic development for civil nuclear power. (Similar to what Iran wants ? or it is the opposite). During the 70’s 12 nuclear power stations was started. During the 70’s it could also be seen that Sweden start to drop when it comes to GNP figures compared to other OECD countries. During the 70’s we replace the oil burners for space heating to electric resistant radiators with electricity produced in nuclear power stations. Now, let me write little about Exergy. If you are within the energy business it is important that you are also interesting in law of natures. Exergy expression comes from the second law of thermodynamics and defines the “quality” of the energy. There is a big difference between one kWh 75 F and one kWh electricity. You can propel a refrigeration compressor with electricity but you can also heat a building with electricity. However, it is not possible to propel a refrigeration compressor with 75 F heat but it is sufficient quality ( temperature ) for space heating if you change the idea how a radiator system should look. If you find the law of nature interesting have a look at www.lowex.net for instance. A more accounting approach could be to consider the situation where you want to keep a building warm. You either burn a fuel and heat water and use about 90 % of the fuel. Or you can do the most farfetched way. You burn a fuel and pressurize water that is evaporated and the let the steam expand in a turbine, which in turn is propelling a generator and then distribute the electricity in an energy-losing grid to the radiator in building and use 30 % of the fuel. It is hard to understand that this approach could be the most cost effective approach to keep a building warm. But it works maybe as long as Vattenfall can buy cheap uran from Uzbeskistan. To conclude, it seams for me that our welfare state decline coincide with our introduction of large centralised monopoly technology rather than constitute the base for a high living standard.

    You have noticed that electric deregulation seams to reduce investment on generation capacity (supply side). This indicates that demand side approach maybe is looming, and that the great potential that effective end-use is started to be exploited. The next step is mass-produced decentralised micro generation using local available fuel. Not fuel from other countries. The energy business that targets buildings industry will face Schumpeters “creative destruction” rather than further expansion of large centralised regulated generation. But I agree that it seams difficult to find some technology that offer better physical conditions and with that also cost effective solution to industries that really need high power out puts of electricity 8700 hours per year than nuclear power. Peter Platell

    Todd McKissick
    3.11.06
    Peter, There's no use trying to explain energy workings to the great economics professor. He simply refuses to look at energy from any other standpoint that strictly the financial and macro-economic point of view. If he actually did this, he would then be forced to admit that alternative ideologies exist to his proposals.

    Deregulation is coming and there's no stopping it. The cause is the fact that distributed generation and smart/efficient grids are gaining as well. Even good economics professors can easily understand that this eventually leads to an open market competition. This is a good thing for all except the status quo monopolistic centralized big energy companies of old. A big reason it has supposedly failed so far is that it has not included enough factors in how it works. I used to be told that a factory or plant "system" could never be automated because there are just too many unknowns. Ha! I added a few more well thought out monitoring devices and proved that mentality to be flawed. I can't fault those opinions regarding smart grids because they haven't been accustomed yet to the big picture of what it will take technically.

    One point I'd like to make is that IMHO nuclear has an upper limit to it's contribution. It's amazing that it hasn't been mentioned by a non-technical type above, but this limit is not technical. Instead, it is a public comfort level limit that is constantly on the move. It's remained fairly consistant for 30 years and now looks to move to a higher level, but I see nuclear's acceptance purely as a percentage of how close we are to that comfort level. I don't believe the world we live in will ever 100% accept 100% nuclear energy for 100% of all uses. So one must multiply those 3 real world percentages against each other and you might just get close to what we will accept.

    The question is, what will provide the rest? Distributed generation almost always in addition to CHP. Simple. In the mean time, we're stuck with fossil fuels until we can get them making large amounts of end users self sufficient.

    Rodney Adams
    3.11.06
    I guess I spoke into a vacuum. Are any Lovins supporters willing to talk about the possibility of much smaller nuclear power plants? (Apparently Amory himself is too busy to engage in conversations about his articles.)

    There are at least three companies in the world - and probably more like six or ten - that are actively pursuing nuclear reactor designs that are small enough to fit into the actually rather sensible vision of distributed plants with heat recovery - either in cogeneration, process heat applications, or combined cycles. (Adams Engines, ROMAWA, and Toshiba)

    The heat recovery systems can be used to provide fresh water in flash evaporator distilling units, cooling in vapor absorption (LiBr) air conditioning plants, or even drying for materials like wood and plastic.

    The Adams Engine, for example, is designed to eventually achieve capital costs that are similar to those of combustion turbines by using essentially the same heat engine - a low pressure Brayton cycle gas turbine - as those systems. (I know enough about production costs to understand that the first units will be more expensive than those that are produced in series in a factory setting.) The advantage is that it also is designed to use a much lower cost, zero emission fuel source.

    Why should we continue to burn up natural gas and oil (which is currently the alternate fuel source for most combined cycle plants) at ever increasing rates in order to reduce the need for coal?

    Any takers? Let's talk about some new ways of attacking the problem!

    Rod Adams President and CEO, Adams Atomic Engines, Inc. (http://www.atomicengines.com)

    Len Gould
    3.11.06
    Mr. Platell fails to explain why he has a big problem with using nuclear to produce wastefully high exergy supply, but no apparent problem with doig that with coal, natural gas, or oil in eg. central plants. I think most nuclear supporters above are clearly in agreement that the issue is "nuclear fuel should be used before fossil in large non-CHP generation".

    If Platell will promise me that no new coal, oil or gas burning central plants will be built, then I might stop supporting nuclear as stongly. Is he willing and able to do so?

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.12.06
    Todd, Peter

    I don't mind being called a great economics professor, because this is something that my students began calling me a long, long time ago, and I am in complete agreement with their appraisal. Of course, many of the academic decision makers, people that I encounter at conferences, some reviewers of some of my books and papers, and so on and so forth have a very different opionion of yours truly. I hope that I don't need to say what that is.

    But I'm not in the habit of making mistakes where the Swedish energy economy is concerned. The cost of Swedish electricity was the lowest or next lowest in the world, and that lovely situation could have continued if the Swedish government had not been so anxious to send several billion dollars to stone age countries so that they could buy weapons and plane tickets, and in addition pay many many more billions for the privilege of being a member of the EU. To do that they had to abandon what, up to then, had been a winning game.

    I'm not interested in Peter Platell's contribution because if the two reactors that were closed had been kept functioning, and in addition been upgraded in the same manner as the remaining ten, and if the same sort of installation was constructed in Sweden that is now being constructed in Finland, this discussion would probably not be taking place. Probably - because I've heard so much craziness from the deregulation and anti-nuclear booster clubs that I'm forced to accept that anything is possible where this subject is concerned.

    A final observation. I have no doubt at all that Todd and Peter have forgotten more about power equipment and the like than I ever knew - although, Peter, I was first in my class in thermodynamics (despite being told by the dean of engineering at Illinois Tech that I was hopeless when he expelled me). But this isn't about power engineering or thermodynamics. It's about the cost of power in Sweden before the mediocrities began to play games with the electric arrangements. Nothing more and certainly nothing less.

    Peter Platell
    3.12.06
    No that’s true Todd, you can’t expect that economics can help the mankind to choose the next generation technology. However, Schumpeter was also a great economics but I never heard other economics mentioned his work because he gave the innovator credit for wealth-grows and not the administrators of existing technology and structures.

    Ferdinand you are talking about cost as all accountants do. When I read the history books I see the same arguments all trough the history. There are accountants compiling figures based on existing technology and it is always most profitable to proceed with business as usual. Taking progressive decision about technology development is scaring and risky. But there are also crazy inventors and greedy capitalist in the history books that are willing to challenging the establishment (there are plenty of them in US which also makes US great) and they are those who provide the mankind new technology that is better than the old one. As soon as the new technology started to mature all accountants saying that this technology is the most profitable. You said Sweden had one of the lowest costs in the world for nuclear power. I assume that countries within the former Sovjetunionen had (have) the lowest cost. It is a typical plan economic technology.

    Rodney , small-scale nuclear power that operates close a big industry using a lot of electricity sounds interesting. How small can they be ?

    Len I think you misunderstood me.( maybe it is my English ) I wrote in my last sentence above that I personally couldn’t find any better solution than nuclear power when it comes to large industry that needs high power outputs continuously of electricity many hours per year. But it is too far fetched to believe that Solar Thermal Electric with coal as back-up deserves further attention in regions with lot of sun ?.

    Peter Platell

    Len Gould
    3.12.06
    Given that Sweden has the near-perfect combination of nuclear capabilities for generating baseload and hydro facilities to pick up the peaks, I can't imagine how it could possibly justify taking risks on pre-market small-fossil CHP before those are sorted and proven in places less advantaged. And with those base resources, it is obvious that, YES, using high-exery electricity for low-quality tasks is justified since that is the only way to access the energy from hydro resources at all. Another similar example is the Quebec area of Canada, almost identical circumstances but larger hydro resource, where all home heating is electrical, and all generation is hydro with a small baseload nuclear plant.

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.13.06
    Peter, the first sentence by Len Gould above goes into my new textbook sometime today, however you and your friends should read it immediately. Sweden has - or had - the near perfect combination, but the mediocrities and cranks are determined to scrap it.

    Incidentally, this isn't the place to discuss economics or - as you call it - accounting. As I explained to my finance students, history is as important as mathematics where that subject is concerned, and I'm sure that e.g. Gordon Gekko would agree.

    Turning to this business of the lowest cost electricity, the next time you visit the Stockholm School of Economics, go into the library and up the stairs to the photocopier. Face it, then do a right face, and begin examining the books on your left. If they are still where they were the last time I looked, you will find publications providing information about electricity costs. If they arn't there any longer, go down and have a heart-to-heart with Professor Bergmann, the big boss. He is a charter member of the deregulation booster club, but if he is in his truth-telling mode you might be able to learn a few things.

    As for the countries of East Europe having the lowest cost electricity because they have a "plan economy technology", I suggest that when you leave that library you go over to the economics department and ask a few questions. Most of those ladies and gentlemen don't know very much, but they might be able to straighen you out about this. If they can't use the expression 'opportunity cost'. It might help...might.

    Todd McKissick
    3.13.06
    Ferdinand, a little friendly advice. When directly quoting someone, you should at least get the complete quote to save the context. I would assume Len's overall point had little to do with cranks trying to make things worse. As I read it, the point was in the unquoted second half as such, "...I can't imagine how it could possibly justify taking risks on pre-market small-fossil CHP before those are sorted and proven in places less advantaged." The key point here is justifying Sweden's position UNTIL the alternatives are 'sorted and proven'.

    I think Peter's comment about the past not being the only factor in the future should be included in your book as well. After all, history has been favorable on all the periods labeled a revolution. By definition, those are times of change.

    If we are going to find any solutions to this crisis we are steaming into, we need to be taking our advice not from the Gordon Gekko-like societal leaches but more from the likes of Gates, Buffet, Bezos, Brinn, Jobs, Walton and Dell. Those are the ones that history will shine on. They all made empires from keeping their eye on future trends and making measurable advancement in society. When learning from history, it might be better to not only watch the periods of prosperity, but what drove the changes to the newer plateaus.

    I thought you were "turning to this business of lowest cost electricity" but all that followed was answer evasion. I probably have the most regulated and lowest cost of (industrial) electricity in the US. (if you're quoting me, please don't stop there) However, since it is all based on cheap coal and it's delivery is getting tighter, we are suddenly getting hit up for rate increases. I don't forsee coal transportation getting a major boost so this problem will only get worse. Since the state ran utilities have no interest in renewables, they have nothing to mitigate that increase even a little. Now I have to ask, with continued building up of cheap coal technologies, where are we headed?

    Joseph Somsel
    3.13.06
    Mr. Lovins has failed to penetrate the "analytical fog" of energy costs and seems to have indeed made his own contribution to the mists.

    For example, he seems to conflate US costs and plans with global predictions - mixing America with India and China - when they have decidedly different future energy needs.

    He's also taken a cue from the US Congress and counted "lack of growth" in electricity consumption as willful and creditable "savings". It should be obvious that such an accounting is not rigorous and can be completely misleading (as it is here.) The analysis of "negawatts" as being pure intention with no debits to balance credits applies. Declining US energy intensity can be credited to offshoring of energy-intensive industries rather than extensive electric conservation measures. Closing an American aluminum smelter and moving production to Brazil would be counted as a huge victory in Lovins' worldview.

    While I have no problem with my neighbor installing a solar panel or Warren Buffet building a wind farm, I ask that they do so with THEIR OWN MONEY. When they expect me to pay for it or to assume the risk, then I expect to have a say in the decision and I would say NO. I offer no defense of the Energy Bill's nuclear production credits except as a balance to political risk.

    As to CHP growth, in the US at least, I think that entrepreneurs have found those opportunities largely been “fished out” as the good sites have been taken (I know, I’ve looked!) Rising natural gas prices will change the equations but so will rising interest rates in the other direction.

    As to increased dependence on wind, I would point to E.On’s experience last year where their European fleet make 6,000 MW on December 24 and 40 MW on December 26. In other words,, this large utility has to keep the equivalent of 4 to 6 large nuclear reactors or coal boilers on standby to ensure continuity of electric supply when the winds failed.

    As to Mr. Nicolaisen's assertions that Mr. Lovins is "a good dude", I see no ad hominem arguments to the contrary. I will say that over the years he has been distressingly inaccurate, hopelessly naïve, and continually incorrect. His public advice has wasted billions and failed to provide for our country’s energy future. Other than that, I’m sure he’s a heck of a good dude. Just wrong.

    Hans Nicolaisen
    3.13.06
    Joseph,

    You bring up good points. I've emailed Amory with a copy of your first three paragraphs, and suggested that he reply here.

    Hans

    Rodney Adams
    3.13.06
    Peter:

    You asked how small an atomic engine can be. AAE is currently working on an engine in the 10 MWe category. It will fill a space approximately the same size as four large shipping containers.

    Joseph - I was planning to make almost the same points as you with regard to off shoring of our energy intensive industries. In addition to aluminum smelters, we have lost chemical factories, fertilizer plants, refineries, steel mills, automobile assembly, plastic production and plastic product manufacturing. America's energy imports would look even worse if the finished products that we were purchasing from overseas included the energy inputs as part of the bill of lading.

    Hans - if you have any pull with your friend Amory, please ask him to come and join in the conversation. I promise not to bite, though I might challenge his assumptions and assertions based on those faulty premises.

    Rod

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.13.06
    But Todd, I can't use the rest of it in my book. What I wanted to hear and will use is how Sweden has the near perfect combination of nuclear and hydro, and also Joseph Somsel's remark about Eon's experience with the wind. This is important information, the kind that Gordon Gekko told Bud what's-his-name to steal. You know, the kind that the cranks and mediocritiesin this country miss because they are so busy sorting and proving.

    Todd McKissick
    3.13.06
    Joseph,

    Regarding your comment on not paying for someone else to put in a renewable source, are you also saying that you don't want your tax dollars to support R&D on any new renewables? I find it quite an imbalance that there is still R&D support for nuclear, coal, PV and wind, but solar thermal is conspicuously missing. I just don't understand spending that kind of money on sources that are already proven and commercial. Major corporations are spending their own R&D budget to wring out that last competitiveness, so what are those tax dollars going towards?

    Also, can you elaborate on what you mean by "fished out" and the good sites being all taken? I have no clue what you're referring to since CHP means to make use of the low grade waste heat from any electricity generating system. This can be small scale or utility, distributed or centralized, fossil fuel or solar, sunny or in the arctic.

    Oh good point, Rodney.

    Peter Platell
    3.14.06
    Gentlemen I find this discussion intriguing but I have to work little also so this will be my last comment for this week.

    Len , The reason why I am nagging about Exergy is that I have conducted a lot of research about Geoexchange and Low Exergy Building design and found that there are a lot of possibilities to improve so called ground couple heat pump technology, that is exchanging heat to and from the ground. Improved Geoexchange combined with low exergy design in the building reduce need for high quality energy to a fraction of what we used today to obtain comfortable indoor climate. Further more low exergy building design implies higher comfort due to even temperature distribution. The low exergy approach means that we need very little electricity in the building and even low electricity efficient small-scale CHP will make sense.(your core business as a real estate owner is not to sell as much electricity as possible) . And we don’t need to use fossil fuels necessary. In Sweden we have a lot of bio-fuel. Bio-fuel is not my expert area but I have learnt from bio-fuel experts (see article by Harry Valentine on energypulse) that there seams to be greater potential than people in general have heard in the same way as I see when it comes to my experts know-how. For technology as PV there is also synergies that makes PV even cost effective when integrated in a low exergy building envelope. Another area that is not explored is small-scale Solar Thermal Combined Heat and Power integrated in the buildings, not large centralised one in the dessert. Electricity from Hydro should be used to run electric motors, computers etc and not heat buildings even in Sweden. That’s true that hydro have great peak shaving possibilities in Sweden but it is still a large centralised monopoly industry hampering new technology and it is very vulnerable from unintentional as well as intentionally failures. You said that you cant’ imagine how it could possibly justify taking risks on pre-market small-fossil CHP before those are sorted and proven in places less advantaged." . I think this statement explain why we have different opinion. I think it is more risky sitting and waiting until someone else has proven a certain technology. I got more exited by create new things rather than administrate old technology.

    Ferdinand. What will I learn if I got to Stockholm school of economics. I will learn that nuclear power was developed with tax payers money because there was no possibility to finance that kind of technology without government involvement. I will also learn that return of investments requirements was very low within the utilities business compared to private companies (not tax payers financed). I will also learn that nobody wants to have the waste in this back-yard. By the way, when I study economic I find it couldn’t give me any guidelines that could help me to deduce new technology. Referring to East Europe energy prices. I have a lot of discussions with my research and business friends in Ukraine. They would be scared to death if you tell them about large centralised energy technology. They are fed up with large centralised power in general. They have very low energy prices of all kind of quality (exergy) but they have a low standard of living compared to Sweden and other countries as Germany and Japan with much higher energy prices. I can’t see any strong connections between high-standard of living and low energy prices. What does the textbook says. Gekko wasn’t any great capitalist. He was just a greedy peanuts counter that didn’t have any visions what to do with the money he earned. He bought paintings that were so expensive and ugly that he had to put them in a safe instead of develop new technology that is better than the old one.

    Todd you have also thinking of which technology that got most subsidies. The history books indicates that it is always the existing technology that got the most subsidize until the next generation of disruptive technology penetrate the market. Then it is the new technology that most people are involved in and hence getting the most subsidies until the next step is taking in the history. Personally I prefer to finance renewable technology rather than large centralised uranium and fossil technology. I didn’t understand either the sentence about “fished out”. I see a huge potential for small-scale CHP.

    Rodney , 10 MW sounds a good size for industry that really needs high exergy energy 8700 hours per year. But let us hope that we don’t need to use electricity from large nuclear power station to keep + 75 F indoors.

    Peter Platell

    Joseph Somsel
    3.14.06
    CHP is a fairly widespread and conventional technology. Build a new hospital or university campus and you'll find CHP used without controversy based on the economics of that specific situation. There is little or no technological risk involved. Existing situations readily retrofit to CHP when the economics are right.

    By "fished out" I meant that there is no great inventory of facilities in the US where retrofit to CHP has NOT be considered and where significant economic savings would result. Higher natural gas and electricity prices will result in more sites becoming economic but only at the cost of large capital investment which makes the projects sensitive to interest rates.

    Yet, figure 1 shows huge growth in CHP. Just don't see it in the US - some, certainly. At least in California, any CHP will be fueled with natural gas given our air quality rules.

    As to R&D budgets, I am of the considered judgment that most of the renewables have a fundamental physics contraint (low energy density) that make them unsuitable for more than niche production. Spending big bucks to buck the physics is a waste of money. I believe that government decisions to the contrary are political sops. Ergo, the Bush Administration is correct on focusing tax dollars on nuclear and away from areas that are likely to be losers.

    You may disagree. In that case, elect someone with an opinion that matches your own judgment.

    I will agree that funding existing commercial technologies requires taxpayer scrutiny to ensure we're not engaging in corporate welfare.

    Professor, I'll email you the link.

    Joseph Somsel
    3.14.06
    Here's the link to E.On's 2005 Wind Report that I mentioned above:

    http://www.eon-energie.de/bestellsystem/frameset_eng.php?choosenBu=eonenergie&choosenId=1725

    See page 8.

    Hans Nicolaisen
    3.14.06
    I did send that email to Amory, but either he's out of the country or doesn't want to discuss his article furher. I suspect the latter as when I sent him an email after my first post here, he replied to me within a short time.

    I have to say that in spite of our early friendship I've come to have some doubts. That's why I thought Amory should respond at least to Joseph's earlier post which,I think, raised some valid points.

    Key to this is that Amory chose to post an article here. Having done that, he should feel a responsibility to reply to the more responsible criticism that's been posted.

    We'll see what happens. If Amory chooses not to reply to some of the points raised above, then I'll feel free to add my own comments.

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.14.06
    You learn something every day in this business, don't you Peter. What you haven't learned however is the power of truth - of history.

    The Swedish nuclear sector was rushed to completion after the first oil price shock. In the light of the situation at that time it was the correct thing to do, and it WAS financed with taxpayer's money. As it turned out though, taxpayers (on the whole) got back every penny of the money they paid for those reactors in the form of higher incomes and employment, and more welfare (e.g. health care and education). That was when, in terms of GDP/head Sweden enjoyed for a short while the position of the richest - or one of the richest - countries in the world.

    Please excuse me if I don't have the slightest sympathy for your outlook, which, unless I am mistaken, involves a heavy dose of social and political experimentation. I'm thinking mainly here of EU membership and open borders, globalization and internationalization, and all the rest of the half-baked, destructive pretentiousness that now characterizes the Kingdom of Sweden.

    Len Gould
    3.15.06
    The overall problem which Mr. Lovins article (and most commentators here and elsewhere) fails to address is the complexity of the issues, especially re. "conservation". People insist on categorizing others as "for me or agin me" on this one, and it's just not that simple.

    Platell's last makes a very valid point re. exergy, eg. it is wastefull to use high-quality electricity in resistance elements as a heat source for 20 degC spaces when 1/3 the amount could provide the same service if used in well-proven geo-source (or etc) heat pumps. That point is nearly identical to my favourite, that it is ridicuclous to heat a 20 degC space or 70 degC warm wash water by burning natural gas producing a 1725 degC flame. The high quality portion of the enthalpy of the resulting gases, eg. from 1725 degC to 600 degC, should be used in an engine to produce either electricity or direct mechanical refrigeration --> heat pump, with the waste heat streams then going to serve the low-quality-requirement space heating or warm water loads. Also sensible is the use of market forces to smooth out demand paeks, thereby enabling greater proportional use of higher-efficiency continuous central generating plants instead of normally low-efficiency peakers. As much as efficiency advocates are promoting this sort of change, I support them entirely, and agree this should be the first steps before developing new generation plants or fuel sources. However, I see no economically safe use in these strategies for promotion of "negawatt payments", eg. payments for foregoing of unproveable indended future use, and given the huge necessary future demand to replace fossil fueled transportation with at least "plug hybrid" technology, now extremely viable given EEStore's new ultracapacitors (1/4 weight of lead acid pe kwhr, millions of cycles, 5 minute full recharge), I am still convinced that nuclear must play a large role in the future mix, eg. that portion of central baseload which cannot be filled by solar thermal with thermal storage.

    Don Giegler
    3.16.06
    Len:

    For yet another approach to the complexity of the issues try: IEEE Control Systems Magazine, October 2005, Volume 25 Number 5. The featured introduction touts a nuclear option I've not seen mentioned in this forum. Now if you've got some non-adversarial objective functions you'd like to maximize or minimize... Oops, I forgot - the generation of electric energy has been optimized photvoltaically in South Africa!

    Don

    Don Giegler
    3.16.06
    Make that photovoltaically.

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.17.06
    For me the bottom line in these discussions is always the (average) cost of producing electricity. The average cost in Sweden was - and may still be - the lowest or almost the lowest in the world due to what Len Gould noted was the optimal generating portfolio: nuclear and hydro. If they could get the cost lower however by introducing new technologies, the government would simply cream off most of the increased profits and send them to Brussels or Pago Pago. Don't think for a minute that households, small businesses, or large energy-intensive industries would benefit. No Swedish government of any political stripe is interested in something like that.

    Also, don't think for a second that if new technology was feasible, that it wouldn't be introduced here. Swedish science and technology are at the absolute top of the world scale, even if a few thousand economists and politicians like Mr Platell are ready to swear that its "beneath all criticism".

    Peter Platell
    3.19.06
    Len nice that you also find ground couple heat pumps a good technology choice. My research indicate that it is possible to get very high COP (6-10) with proper designed Geoexchange technology and low exergy buildings design. The heat pump can also be manufactured much cheaper than existing heat pumps. However. It takes some development, which reduces the profit next year.

    Hi again Ferdinand, Funny that you put me together with economics and politicians. I have spent most of my time of trying to understand law of nature and to turn this know-how into new products that is better than existing products. But I am interesting in politics because I am afraid of regulated monopoly centralised power in general.

    You said the bottom line for you is the cheapest way to produced electricity. This is of course also the bottom-line for those whose business is based on selling as much electricity as possibly. However, it is not necessary the bottom-line for me and other people who wants a comfortable indoor climate for instance. The bottom line for me is to obtained a certain energy function to the lowest prices and I have found (by research ) that this does not coincide with your bottom–line. peter platell

    Ferdinand E. Banks
    3.19.06
    Peter, if you think that there is no connection between the price of electricity and the consumption of electricity (i.e. indoor climate in your contribution), then you should attend some of the lectures that I am preparing. I don't mean those on mathematical economics, but those that I plan to give my grandchildren on pre-school algebra. By the way, I'm sure that you saw the item in Svenska Dagbladet this morning about the price of electricity in Sweden - the highest that it's ever been. That's what happens when political hacks start playing games with one of the most efficient electric systems in the world - you know, the one that you are so afraid of.

    Don Giegler
    3.20.06
    Ferdinand,

    Just to clear the air, my joshing with Len Gould was in no way meant to disparage Swedish technology. For that, I have the highest regard. The EKA "Swede 60" in my pants pocket is evidence thereof. Have run across a current article, "Swedish Spent Fuel & Radwaste" by P. H. Grahn (per.h.grahn@skb.se) and M. Skogsberg, both of SKB, that does nothing to dim my feeling. Their paper was presented at ENC2005 during the 12/11 through 12/14/05 sessions. It is a straight-forward, matter-of-fact statement of what's been done, the present state and what's planned. Peter's litany on the use of waste heat struck a chord that caused me to do a search on Agesta, which led to the anti-nuke site: www.ecology.at/nni/country.php?country=Sweden . The summary not only pointed out that Agesta did heat a section of Stockholm between '64 and '74, but allowed, in its final paragraph, that the phase-out is faltering. This even before the Olympic gold in ice hockey!

    Don

    JK August
    1.22.09
    While the article's cute, the author needs an engineering degree to understand costs -- it's all about cost, energy density, and what's the most effective solution.

    “How can new nuclear power plants be financed?” - easy! Let the builders finish their projects, like in Taiwan, China, Korea or Japan. Then you can go into production, start to recover your investment and go where we want, clean reliable energy.

    The market reality is even more complex, but one is that solar and wind take ten times the subsidies nuclear does. Why? Energy density; it's too low. Arguments also conveniently ignore fabrication and construction costs. All those nasty chemical and toxic wastes needed to produce that solar cell stuff. Where does that all end up?

    To be objective comparing options, you have to crunch numbers -- something some lawyers don't grasp. It's all like solving a differential equation, you can't force a solution using just words without calculation. Certain decentralised renewables, combined-heat-and-power (CHP), and efficient end-use of electricity all sound cute. At the end of the day, it's the proven mainstays that work.

     
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