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The title of this contribution is almost identical to the one I used for a paper that I published in the OPEC Bulletin ten years ago. During those wonderful days I eventually came to believe that -- where energy economics was concerned -- I was OPEC's fair-haired boy, since they published everything I sent them, regardless of its content or quality. The same was true for several other journals -- one of which listed me on the inside front cover as an editor.
As is said in a song that a neighbour of mine in Geneva (Switzerland) occasionally blared at the top of his obviously untrained voice, "Those were the days my friend; we thought they would never end."
But end they did. Where my editorship was concerned, I was informed by the editorial director that there was to be an important change in his journal, and as I found out later the change that he was talking about consisted exclusively of eliminating my good self, both as an editor and a contributor. The OPEC Bulletin and the OPEC Energy Review also came to the conclusion that my work was a little too sophisticated for their readers, by which they meant much too honest, given the way that the oil market was developing. In any event, beginning several years ago my humble submissions were neither returned nor was I accorded a 'Dear John' after they received and rejected my work. As far as they were concerned, I was demoted to the rank of a non-person.
That brings me once more to the title of this paper. Taking oil as a case in point, it might be true that the most imaginative myths in circulation today are those being generated by OPEC. Having come to appreciate the supreme importance of oil -- and how it functions as a benchmark for the world's energy systems -- that organization has informed the oil importing countries that if the oil price goes up and stays up, then they will invest in more production capacity, and also raise their output of oil.
That sounds good -- in fact it probably sounds like something you heard in an introductory economics lecture, or read in your favourite textbook or newspaper -- only it is completely untrue. It is a distinguished myth, and unfortunately a myth that is believed by many drowsy academics and their students, and probably more than a few influential but not very brainy decision makers. Instead, although there might be exceptions, the aggregate of OPEC producers is not going to invest in additional capacity, and they are definitely not going to produce or try to produce much more oil. Why should they? Would you if you were in their place?
OPEC has also launched the theory that high oil prices are due to speculation (i.e. gambling) and not fundamentals (or supply and demand). This allegation was supported by a finance professional named Michael Masters, who appeared before a sub-committee of the United States Congress, and offered virtually a sacred affirmation that it was speculation and not the physical market that was ruining the lives of American motorists. Both OPEC and Mr Masters were in turn supported by perhaps the most influential celebrity on Fox News, which is a television channel featuring some of the most obsessive voices on the U.S. conservative scene. The voice to whom I am referring on this occasion belonged to none other than Mr Bill O'Reilly, who informed his plethora of admirers that it was "little guys in Las Vegas" who created the problem.
Had this been true, President Bush could have taken the morning train or a helicopter to Wall Street, or jetted to Las Vegas, and using the very significant authority of his government, put things right before lunch was served. Instead he climbed into Air Force One and flew to Saudi Arabia, where he asked the Saudi King to produce more oil, and preferably sooner rather than later. That 'hat-in-hand' episode was concluded almost immediately after the delivery of the president's request, with King Abdullah thanking him for his concern, and wishing him a safe trip home. Furthermore, the myth initiated by the Saudi oil minister some months earlier, which pictured Saudi Arabia raising its sustainable output to 15mb/d, and keeping it there for the next 50 years, was neither confirmed nor denied at that high level meeting. In fact it was ignored, because the Chief Executive was already in possession of enough energy fictions to keep him and his advisers occupied for the remainder of his term in office.
Before changing the topic, I want to emphasize that the successful dissemination of powerful myths cannot exclusively be attributed to the strong desire of TV audiences and blogosphere 'buffs' to expose themselves to the self-indulgence of the media. Instead, those ladies and gentlemen want to shine by demonstrating for their peers that they can latch on to what they think are a few perceptive nuggets in the torrent of nonsense that rushes through the ether every day. Where energy economics is concerned, these nuggets often turn out to be fools gold, because as once emphasized in physics, the important thing in science is not the pursuit of new ideas, since there are always plenty of those available, but abandoning bad ideas as expeditiously as possible.
One person who has not been able to discard bad ideas, at least about energy, is Mr Leopardo Maugeri, a director or former director of ENI -- perhaps the most important corporation in Italy -- and who may still be enjoying the hospitality of some faculty at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, which is the most celebrated engineering school in the United States. Writing in Scientific American (2009), Signor Maugeri has fashioned still another fairy-tale about the lovely abundance of oil, and the unsoundness of wasting precious time and vitality contemplating what he thinks of as a hypothetical peaking of the global oil production.
In thinking about his foolishness, I hope that everyone who takes this presentation seriously will take careful note of the following. Output in the U.S. peaked at the end of 1970 at a value of about 9.5 mb/d -- which is approximately the present output of Saudi Arabia and Russia, the largest producers of oil in the world. When that peaking took place there was still an enormous amount of oil onshore or directly offshore the United States. Production then dropped to 7.5 mb/d, but when the giant Prudhoe Bay field in Alaska came on line, the total output in the U.S. turned up. Unfortunately however, the previous peak was never attained. Instead, total U.S. production stopped short of that peak and once again began to decline. Today U.S. output is approximately 5.5 mb/d, and there is only one way for it to go, which is down.
Now take a good look at the production curves for the 300 largest oil fields in the world. Following that, after satisfying yourself that a large majority of these fields have unambiguously turned down (i.e. peaked), ask yourself how is it possible, in these circumstances, for anyone to sincerely believe that a global peak will not take place. Since we are talking about myths, please note the word "sincerely". What it means is that there are people who know better than I do that a global peak will arrive, but have excellent reasons -- of a career and financial nature -- for claiming the opposite.
One of these people is the director of global oil and gas resources at an influential consulting firm, who has employed the picturesque word "garbage" to describe the work of peak-oil believers. If you encounter him some fine day, tell him that the output of the U.S. has peaked, as has the oil in the UK and Norwegian North Sea. Given the opportunity you should also mention that what was the second largest field in the world just a few years ago -- the Cantarell field in Mexico -- is declining at a startling rate.
The Russian oil output is probably close to peaking, and in any event the director of one of the largest Russian firms says that his country will never produce more than 10 mb/d. This is a nice round number (that may be slightly wrong), but it happens to be one-tenth of the amount (= 100 mb/d) that the present CEO of Total (the French oil major) says is the absolute maximum for world production. If this is not sufficient, consider the following. The discovery of what we think of as conventional oil peaked in 1965. In the early 1980s the annual consumption of oil became larger than the annual discovery, and at the present time only about 1 barrel of (conventional or near-conventional) oil is discovered for every 3 consumed. According to a British Petroleum (BP) document, of 54 producing nations only 14 still show increasing production. 30 are past peak output, while output rates are declining in 10. To claim, as Mr Maugeri does, that all of this bad news does not imply an eventual peaking, is the same as implying that the (oil) whole is less than the sum of the parts, which is a myth that no intelligent observer would rush to accept if they realized what they were saying or thinking.
Natural Gas and Coal
In the last year or so I have heard or read a great deal about natural gas. The reason of course is that instead of collapsing, as some important scholars once thought, OPEC has become stronger, and since this is now increasingly understood by voters and consumers in the energy-intensive countries, an increasing amount of attention is being turned toward things like natural gas, nuclear and renewables. In the U.S. for instance, a popular expression that is making the rounds is 'energy independence'.
Russia is the largest owner of natural gas reserves, and it produces and exports a great deal of that resource. Outside the United States, the activities of Russia gas exporters are frequently observed and commented on, and very often some politics are involved in these discourses. I try to avoid paying attention to this sort of thing, because as far as I am concerned the overwhelming interest of the Russians is obtaining as much money as they can as fast as they can, and things like ideology and geopolitics no longer play a crucial role in their exertions, if they ever did. Of course, that country has created a considerable amount of apprehension or antagonism among customers and potential customers, and it has happened that I found myself wondering if their behaviour in regard to natural gas is completely rational.
Lacking even a superficial interest in the political aspects of this and similar issues, I prefer to concentrate on the matter of resource scarcity -- or for that matter resource abundance. I presented a quotation by the late Professor Georgescu-Roegen at the beginning of this paper, and on the one occasion that I heard him lecture he expressed a belief that all wars are caused by the desire to come into possession of physical resources. War is a different thing today than it was when he made that statement because of the widespread availability of nuclear weapons, but even so the tensions caused by resource shortages -- or the likelihood of severe resource shortages in a not too distant future -- will eventually be very difficult to ignore.
To my way of thinking, Russia has an enviable advantage in the natural gas game, and as a result cooperation with that country makes more sense than confrontation. My argument here turns on the theoretical value of Russian gas if it is exported to China instead of Europe. Like Europe, China needs natural gas, and ceteris paribus should have no difficulty paying for it. Many of the pipelines from major Russian gas fields go towards the large gas consumers in Europe, and at the present time it is in the economic interest of both Russia and Europe to keep these lines filled, but in the medium to long run the natural direction for Russian gas is South, and this is where it is likely to go.
Moreover, the predictions that we often confront about the profusion of natural gas are not easy for me to accept. The sudden increase in U.S. gas reserves strikes me as too good to be true, although it could be the real thing. However even if it is, given the historic and predicted rate of growth of global gas consumption, somebody important should start thinking about the peaking of global natural gas production, and also the possible forming of a GAS-PEC. When I look at the rate of growth of gas consumption, and the reserve-production ratio for that resource, I immediately see the genesis of another myth that will result in voters and serious investors being tricked into believing certain things about natural gas that will not serve their countries well in the future. For instance, the occasional talk in the U.S. about energy independence that would be based on huge domestic supplies of gas might turn out to be bunkum.
Bunkum is a word that I seldom use in my lectures on natural gas, but it almost always finds a place in my lectures on coal. For instance, in a brilliant article Peter Huber (2009) points out that China is adding 100 'gigawatts' of coal-fired electric capacity a year -- which is one third of the total coal burning capacity of the U.S. The bottom line here, according to Huber, is that the U.S. does not control the global supply of carbon, and I would like to make it clear that neither does e.g. Sweden and Denmark, despite their posturing and courting attention as environmental know-it-alls and icons in the corridors and restaurants of the European Union headquarters in Brussels.
Regardless of the outcome of the circus that will convene in Copenhagen this December, when so-called and would-be experts from every corner of the globe assemble for the purpose of drafting resolutions for improving the world's environmental health, it would be nice if the governments of energy-intensive countries began thinking in terms of economically and technologically optimal energy sectors, instead of thermodynamic travesties like carbon sequestration, whose only merit is their popularity with the anti-nuclear booster clubs.
Carbon Capture and Storage (CCS) is probably one of the most grotesque myths in modern times, and here I always point to the Swedish utility Vattenfall. They are shouting to the high heavens praise for a pilot installation that they have opened in Germany that, in reality, is only about a twentieth of the size of an average modern coal plant. Just as important, it will not be fully evaluated for at least another decade. By that time the man doing the most shouting, Vattenfall's director, will be retired and dividing his time between a luxury apartment somewhere in Germany, and his summer house in some part of the gorgeous Swedish archipelago. One of his successors will therefore have to explain that if this nutty practice is to make environmental sense, it may cost at least a trillion dollars in the U.S. alone.
The thing to remember here is that about half of the world's energy is supplied by coal, and many of the politicians who are now busy on the environmental front could not possibly expect to obtain a renewed mandate if they informed the electorate of the cost they would have to support if the noble intention to suppress or store only a small amount of the carbon dioxide emissions generated every year was realised. Carbon sequestration is liable to be an important subject in Copenhagen, and I think that the best expression for describing what will be taking place in that wonderful Copenhagen is a STING, whose main purpose is to enhance the lives and careers of certain politicians and bureaucrats, as well as celebrity environmentalists.
Nuclear and Renewables
The basic issue here is that many persons feel that they have a choice between nuclear and renewables, when in reality they have no choice at all. I am thinking in particular of persons who desire more money as compared to less, and less work as compared to more. Also people who want more security, more options concerning leisure and entertainment in their everyday lives, and who hope that the future will feature the kind of communities in which they and their descendents will have agreeable prospects in regard to incomes and life styles. For me that means communities in which nuclear is allowed to play a larger role if that makes economic sense, though perhaps not to the extent as in today's France, and almost certainly not a larger role than renewables. Many more renewables are essential, but so is the reliability and flexibility of nuclear.
Flexibility? How can someone look at a nuclear facility and talk about flexibility? I wonder if people like Amory Lovins and Dr. Michael Dittmar were thinking of my position on this subject when they challenged me to on-line debates -- challenges which I ignored in the same manner that the king of Saudi Arabia probably ignored President Bush when the subject of increasing the output of oil in his country came up. What I mean of course is the next generation of nuclear technology -- the fourth generation (Gen 4), as compared to Gen 3 that is just going into operation in Finland and France. Gen 4 could being the same benefits to the countries that adopt it as Gen 2 brought to Sweden. It made Sweden the richest country in Europe, although of course this situation was abandoned for 'silly and illogical' reasons that cannot be taken up here.
I have been informed by several physicists that the Gen 4 reactors may never come into existence. The only thing I remember about physics is that I failed the beginning course twice, and since I had also failed the beginning mathematics course twice also, the director of the engineering school I was attending in Chicago called me into his office and expelled me as a hopeless case. But the fact of the matter is that Gen 3 is quite sufficient for the time being, at least according to the economics and finance that I have taught, and the history that I have read.
The reason for my saying this is that the optimal way to produce nuclear equipment is in factories, rather than in more or less piece-meal or custom-made operations. This has not been economical because only a handful of reactors are produced and put into operation every year; but at the present time about 400 new reactors have been planned or proposed. This is just the beginning, and the benefits from increasing-returns-to-scale could change a great deal when the manufacture of reactors takes place in an optimal setting. For instance, the new Gen 3 reactor in Finland, the largest in the world, was supposed to be constructed in five years, but it might take eight. This is discouraging, however on the basis of my study of this issue, I happen to be convinced that if standardized reactors are produced in factories, it should not take more than four years to produce such a reactor, and it could take less. When I am certain that it will take less, then I might agree to participate in debates with physicists like Lovins and Dr. Dittmar, and among other things I will announce and try to prove to them -- and myself -- that nuclear energy can absolutely and certainly produce electricity for a lower cost than any other source.
In the Shadow of Malthus
A paper that I disliked on an initial reading was 'The return of Malthus (2008), by Jorgen Orstrom Moller (2008). The reason I disliked it was because I kept focussing on the part where Professor Moller seems to indicate that technology and free market capitalism can save the world from the depletion of non-renewable resources, and the miseries that we will suffer in the event of severe over-population. This is the kind of myth that the late Milton Friedman once gratuitously presented to Nobel Prize winners in Science and Medicine in Stockholm many years ago, and which they branded as absurd -- though unfortunately not to his face, and only after the meeting was concluded. I was especially annoyed by the mention of the late Professor Julian Simon, who was naive enough to believe that large populations are better than small populations, because then larger quantities of brainpower will be available (and willing and able) to solve the more vexing of the world's problems.
Actually Moller is quite reasonable where this topic is concerned. Like (Reverend) Thomas Malthus, he believes that runaway population growth could result in a very bad scene, and goes so far as to suggest that environmental (i.e. Malthusian) issues "present a challenge to the global commons that neither new territories, technology nor the function of markets alone can solve." What about adding to those annoyances a shortage of space, pretentious and sub-optimal technological ambitions, malfunctioning markets, declining educational and moral standards, together with a world population of 9 billion souls -- which is a likely scenario for 2050 or thereabouts. Some climate woes can also be thrown in, which may or may not be due to human activities.
In an article dealing with these matters, David Stipp (2004) noted that perhaps the most realistic study of the political and sociological aspects of this kind of situation is taking place in the U,S, in that very large building called the Pentagon. That being the case, it seems appropriate to cite a particularly germane observation by Professor Moller. "Mr Malthus is a man that we would not like to meet in person. He is an unwanted guest, one well worth working to avoid." To which Stipp or one of his readers might add after the cognac had gone around the table a couple of times, ' if he cannot be avoided, then he will have to be convinced by fair means or foul to visit other locales.'
References
Banks, Ferdinand E. (2007). The Political Economy of World Energy: An Introductory Textbook. London and Singapore: World Scientific. Cooke, Ronald R. (2009). 'The clean energy act is not going anywhere'. 321 Energy (July). Huber, Peter W. (2009). 'Bound to burn'. City' Journal (Spring). Hutzler, Mary J. (2009). 'The Pickens plan: is it the answer to our needs?' IAEE Energy Forum. Lounsbury, John (2009). 'Natural gas: another great thing from a lobby near you.' Seeking Alpha (August 02). Maugeri, Leonardo (2009). 'Squeezing more oil from the ground'. Scientific American (October). Moller, Jorgen Orstrom (2008). 'The return of Malthus: scarcity and international Order'. The American Interest (July/August). Stipp, David (2004). 'Climate collapse'. Fortune (Feb. 9, 2004).
For information on purchasing reprints of this article, contact Tim Tobeck ttobeck@energycentral.com. Copyright 2010 CyberTech, Inc.
Excellent reading, Fred, as usual. I liked GAS-PEC, though it soon occurred to me to wonder why you hadn't used the same format as created the acronym OPEC sic. First letter of the commidity + PEC = GPEC.
Any time I start feeling too good I just spend some time lurking at The Oil Drum . That rapidly re-establishes a due quantity of brow-furrowing considering all the proposed manual ground-furrowing.
Jim Beyer 10.29.09
Fred,
You've heard this before, no doubt, but I believe history will show that oil production peaked in July, 2008. I think that would be about 87 million barrels per day. I think this peak will stand if for no other reason than the stalled economy (which still uses some oil) will continue to drain the reserves while not providing the incentive to produce more.
The gas market, in some ways, is a bit more complicated, not the least reason being that it is much more difficult to store. Not nearly as bad as the electric grid, mind you, but much more problematic than oil, which can basically be stored for free, even after it is out of the ground. (In electronics parlance, your "capacitors" are a bit more pricey.) Anyway, this probably explains why that market is a bit jumpy; industries appear when gas is cheap, and dissolve when it gets pricey.
So I don't think the current low prices of NG are any kind of scam or scheme; just the reality of a market that lacks much innate stabilizing forces.
I do remain a strong proponent of NG cars, as their fuel can be produced from numerous sources, including even (gasp!) coal.
Jim Beyer 10.30.09
Fred,
Annual use of NG in the U.S. is about 22 TCF. Domestic reserves are set between 1500 and 2000 TCF (From report issued by the Potential Gas Committee at the Colorado School of Mines). That's 70-90 years at current usage rates. If we could assume efficiency improvements and biomethane feed-ins to counter market growth, we might actually get that 70 years.
There seems to be some shale rock sites in Canada as well, and some are even being developed. That should increase N. American reserves further.
As for Europe, I'd cozy up to Qatar and get some LNG tanker operations going. They may be clunky, and the ports have their NIMBY factor, but it gets the job done and makes you independent of Russia and Iran. (Does Qatar produce much ammonia? If they don't, they should.)
Ferdinand E. Banks 10.30.09
Jim, that R/q rate for NG moved up a little too fast for my taste. A couple of years ago it was 60, and now it ...might be 90.
As for becoming independent of Russia, that will take care of itself. Russian gas is going to go to China, and I for one do NOT like that arrangement, because I prefer inexpensive to expensive gas . As for cozying up to Qatar, well, count me in. Relaxing in the Qatari sunshine is my idea of real living.
James Carson 10.30.09
Fred, the reason that there is more gas is not that we have found more, but that we now know how to extract shale gas that we knew about, but didn't know what to do with.
Roger Tissot 11.3.09
Dear Professor Banks
As usual I love your style. Regarding Natural Gas, in Canada and the US the latest fad is shale gas. It remains to be seen if environmental regulations and NIMBY attitudes severly curb the potential of this new source of gas...
bill payne 11.3.09
"For instance, the occasional talk in the U.S. about energy independence that would be based on huge domestic supplies of gas might turn out to be bunkum."
...
"So what about the many sources of "unconventional" oil and gas? Won't these compensate for declining production from conventional sources? The short answer is no.
Geologist Art Berman, for example, offers a decidedly negative view of the latest "big thing" - obtaining large volumes of natural gas from "tight shales." In a comprehensive review of production and flow rates from several thousand wells drilled in the past decade in the Barnett Shale of Texas, Mr. Berman presents a gloomy forecast.
Looking at a large sampling of Barnett wells, the overall data reveal that initial gas flows decline rapidly. With some wells, the drop-off is as much as 70% in the first year, with further declines of 20% in the second year.
This hardly dovetails with the happy talk about how "shale gas" will supply US energy requirements for the next several decades, if not a couple of centuries. It appears that most Barnett wells are short-term money losers, with a few prolific wells carrying the bulk of capital expenditure.
Byron King The Daily Reckoning Wednesday October 28, 2009"
My latest contribution can be googled.
Scripting languages pollute. First posted. Tuesday October 13, 2009 07:36. What does Go Daddy run on?
But we're in the process of learning css, JavaScript, xhtlm, php, and asp anyway.
Martin Tampier 11.3.09
Fred, some say (and I tend to agree) that coal is actually the key to peak oil. the reason being, coal reserves re still fairly plentiful (and available domestically), and coal can be turned into a liquid fuel using Fischer Tropsch technology. I also heard that this is already envisaged both in China and the US., although I am not 'in' on how for these planned projects have advanced so far. So if oil becomes too expensive, we may have coal available to make it ourselves.
Also, the drive towards hybrid and electric cars is strong and it thus seems that we may move away from gasoline over the coming twenty years. Combining these two developments, should we be too concerned about peak oil (or peak gas) then?
Jack Ellis 11.3.09
I highly recommend "Twilight in the Desert" a book on the Saudi oil fields written by an investment banker named Matthew Simmons. Mr. Simmons specializes in working with oil patch firms and his book challenges the conventional wisdom that the Saudis can produce at high rates for a relatively long time. Not incidentally, it is an excellent primer on the technical and economic aspects of exploring for and producing oil. The book is an easy read - so much so that I had trouble putting it down.
Based on the timing, I'm reasonably confident Goldman Sachs' predictions about super peak oil prices were based largely on a reading of Mr. Simmons' book.
In the meantime, it was noted in today's New York Times that Al Gore is preparing to spend $300 million to convince us that we must eliminate the use of fossil fuels in 10 years. Short of a nuclear war (perish the thought) or a natural disaster of enormous scale, it ain't going to happen.
bill payne 11.3.09
"Fred, some say (and I tend to agree) that coal is actually the key to peak oil. the reason being, coal reserves re still fairly plentiful (and available domestically), "
[A]ccording to a recent USGS study (Assessment of Coal Geology, Resources and Reserves in the Gillette Coalfield, Powder River Basin, Wyoming, USGS open-file report 2008-1202), the coal reserve estimate for the Gillette coal field is 10.1 billion short tons, which is a mere 5% of the original 200 billion ton resource total. In other words, the USGS has just revised the Gillette resource base down by 95%.
Goggle for exact reference.
Jeff Presley 11.3.09
Another gold-star article Fred. While I'll certainly agree that conventional oil has peaked, unconventional, being unconventional is unknown. In the same manner that tight gas shales have dramatically increased the natural gas reserves in this country, it is entirely possible, even probable that something similar could eventually occur with unconventional oil. For instance the oil sands in Canada could be produced at 10X their current rate with superior technology. Unfortunately of course folks who have been planning over a decade on how to spend several billion dollars of their shareholder's money aren't inclined to say, "Whoops, should have done it this other way", so they will blithely continue down the current errant path.
Easier than Fischer Tropsch for coal are any number of methods for oil shale production. While there is still a supposed abundance of conventional oil however, this is a moot point. Only AFTER the crisis will other methods receive the serious consideration they deserve, but by then it could well be too late. Meantime we have the added confusion of the AGW imbroglio and all that it entails. So while we dither and wring our hands, the clock doesn't stop ticking and those wells continue to deplete. Instead of Malthus we should be referring to Pygmalion for self fulfilling prophecy. But this all makes a strange kind of sense, when you couple it with all those shirts and signs that say, "Save the Planet, Kill Yourself". To them I say, "Good idea, you first!"
Donald Hourican 11.3.09
Fred, I agree with your overall conclusion that we are better off with more nuclear that with just about anything else. The problem with nuclear (to me) is the lack of resolution around disposal, which (to me) makes it look as bad (if not worse) as coal.
Rather than have nuclear get tripped up by one hurdle after another which each takes years to resolve, let's get imaginative and come up with some good policy initiatives. How about granting rewards to any state/county/whatever that will site any eventual nuclear disposal site/recycling center? The French nuclear industry became very popular in part by offering industries cut-rate energy prices for locating factories in nuclear plan territories.
We need to find ways of helping the nuclear industry deal with its hurdles by utilizing capitalism and plain old greed as a vacuum to suck the industry along, driven by millions of people who will want to see it happen because of the dollars and jobs it represents.
My two cents for what it's worth ...
Ferdinand E. Banks 11.4.09
During the last presidential campaign, John McCain had some interesting things to say about nuclear. Among other things he seems to have singled out France as a role model. That seemed quite logical to me. The French - and the Japanese - are thinking about reprocessing a lot of nuclear 'waste', although they are not making a big thing of this at the present time, nor is it necessary. Given the amount of nuclear capacity in France, and the attitude of French voters toward this situation, the French are sitting pretty where energy is concerned. They see their future as nuclear plus a lot of renewables, which for them is the perfect solution.
Donald Hourcan wants us to help the nuclear industry. I wonder if that is going to be necessary. There IS going to be a nuclear revival, and eventually it will give us the nuclear sector that we deserve. The real challenge at this moment is making some sense of the circus that is going to begin in Copenhagen next month, by which I mean limiting the amount of unambiguous nonsense that will have to be treated.
bill payne 11.4.09
The Powder River Basin in Wyoming and Montana is the largest known coal deposit in the United States with an estimated 550 billion tons of federally owned coal in the ground, but only 1.5 percent of it is currently available for mining, according to a new federal report.
The remainder is either off limits entirely because mining is prohibited by law, such as areas designated as wilderness, or is not being mined because the coal is unreachable or the land is being used for other purposes.
Greg Schaefer, spokesman for Arch Coal Inc., which operates two mines in the Powder River Basin, said the coal in the basin is shaped like a bathtub, with the edges near the land surface and then dropping deep underground in the middle.
''That coal can be several thousand feet deep in the middle,'' Schaefer said. ''There's no technology for that kind of operation.''
Google 'bob simon cbs coal' to see "Take A Ride Into A Mine (CBS News)" to hearthe 'snap, crackle, and pop' caused by the weight of the overburden.
Ferdinand E. Banks 11.4.09
If you have seen the latest Scientific American, you will note that they have published a long article by two apparently important academics claiming that the world's energy needs can be satisfied by water, wind and solar. I know what these two academic quacks mean by wind and solar, but where water is concerned I hope that they mean 'firewater', which is what the indians called whiskey, or maybe just plain 'water', which is what I and a collleague called whiskey during a most enjoyable tour with Uncle Sam's army in Germany.
Anyway, coal is nowhere in the thinking of those two scholars, however regardless of when it is used, the US is a lucky lucky country to possess these enormous coal resources. The problem of course is that the American voters are so obsessed by trivia that they would be unable to comprehend how coal - and also things like nuclear - fits into the future US energy picture, even if it were explained by a modern day Einstein or Fermi.
I don't know how many times I have cursed myself for leaving engineering to study and teach economics, but maybe, subconciously, I knew a few things. Anybody who has a serious interest in economic theory must be wondering what was going through the minds of the SA editors when they decided to showcase a load of foolishness without the slightest relation to what is (or should be) taught in Econ 201. Yes, more solar and wind is going to be necessary, and maybe even 'water', but to make these three things the core of the global energy economy...puhlease.
Len Gould 11.4.09
I think there are a couple of relevant certainties regarding nuclear and coal. First is that any time we wish (eg whenever we are willing to pay a slight economic premium), we can implement any of several advanced fission cycles such as lithium flouride reactors which can both burn up all present "waste" and while doing so convert abundant thoruim resources into fuel reserves. Second is that there is no such thing as "inaccessible" coal. In-situ gassification can reliably convert any coal deposit into syngas returned to the surface where it is then easily converted into liquid or gaseous fuel. Again, simple economics holding it up. As long as coal can be shoveled up from the surface, there's no economic incentive. However, I personally think that switching a lot of infrastructure to coal-based power would be a stupid thing for us to do given that solar thermal / thermal storage / HVDC transmission can do the same job more economically, sustainably and without risking future generations.
Jack Ellis 11.4.09
Any energy technology can be relied upon to serve all of our requirements if we're willing to pay enough. Solar, for example, is certainly abundant enough to supply the world's energy needs, perhaps several times over. But...
The cost of storing it, converting it to more readily usable forms of energy, converting land to other uses, transporting it, etc. are enormous. It's recently come to light that solar thermal development in the American Southwest may be limited by the amounts of water that are available for cooling, since solar thermal is a steam-based conversion cycle. Dry cooling is an option, but it raises the cost substantially.
Being an engineer rather than an economist, I have missed on numerous occasions an important point Fred keeps trying to make, which is the way in which markets and policymakers tend to focus on short-run costs rather than long-run costs. This leads to disruptive events that are politically undesirable but probably necessary to focus attention in the absence of a better mechanism for pricing long-term scarcity.
Joseph Langenberg 11.4.09
Hi again Professor, not a bad article. You haven't changed my view on nuclear for use here in the USA, however it may well be an efficaceous energy medium in other parts of the world. You are pretty right on with regards the amounts and your discussion on the uses of oil, gas, coal. Former prez stupid (bush) went to Saudi Arabia in an attempt to have the Saudi's bail him out after his horrific incursion into Iraq raised oil prices well beyond even his inane expectations. I always considered the Iraq War as a ploy to drastically increase oil prices, but this horrible miscalculation of stupid's was far more severe than anyone could foresee. Without the Iraq War, oil prices would have increased, but not anywhere near to the degree it did. Anyway Professor it's good to communicate with you again, hope to hear from you real soon. Have a real great holiday season. Joe langenberg
Don Giegler 11.5.09
Well, Fred, today we learned from no less authority than former USNRC member Peter Bradford that nuclear power will not be a major answer to U.S. energy issues. As nearly as could be determined from the hackneyed Energy Central article, the expert Mr. Bradford believes the discovery of new natural gas reserves makes nuclear power less necessary. It appears a prelude to Circus Copenhagen occurred at the University of Wisconsin - LaCrosse Tuesday evening last. Didn't realize that clowns require so much practice.
Ferdinand E. Banks 11.6.09
Don, while that circus in Copenhagen is going on you might hear anything. As a result I'm willing to overlook the ignorance of people like Mr Bradford. This coming monday I will be attending - as a spectator - a seminar/conference on nuclear at the University of Stockholm. I think that I am going to hear some friendly things about nuclear, but some crazy things about (Russian) gas. In any event I am going to sit quietly with a smile on my face, because this particular meeting is being held in the former student union building of the University of Stockholm.
Len Gould 11.6.09
Jack: "It's recently come to light that solar thermal development in the American Southwest may be limited by the amounts of water that are available for cooling" -- If available cooling water is a problem, there are several rational solutions. Simplest is to implement large quantities of Stirling SES dishes (31% efficiency but as yet somewhat more costly than towers or trough systems. With volume that would change.) More complex would be to bring seawater inland, use it for cooling as the first step in doing evaporative de-salination to produce fresh water for other purposes. Probably requires too much advance planning for current corporate/finance systems though.
Don Hirschberg 11.6.09
Prof Banks: Regarding the Scientific Americn article you menitioned above. I found the piece so incompetent I didn't know where to start my criticism. I did send off a letter to the Editors - rather I thought I did. The next morning I found I had made an address mistake. Just as well, I might have been too harsh.
Ferdinand E. Banks 11.7.09
Not just the one immediately above, Don, but also the one by Maugeri (mentioned in my article). I'm tempted to ask what the hell is that publication after, but a short period of deep thought leads me to believe that they are not after anything other than making as much money as they can, even if it requires publishing some half-baked junk occasionally.
Of course, something else that needs to be cited is that this old world of ours is filled with some pretty ignorant people where energy is concerned. This site or forum or whatever 'they' call it is an amazing exception.
James Carson 11.7.09
I repeat.... Until the waste storage/disposal problem is solved POLITICALLY, for real this time, nuclear is going nowhere in the US. Storing nuclear waste in casks on an island in the middle of the Mississippi River as is done in my part of the world is not a responsible solution, even as a temporary measure.
Jack Ellis 11.7.09
Len,
*If* the Stirling dishes can be produced in volume and operate reliably, I would agree. The seawater idea is intriguing, but my sense is it's pretty expensive to pump water all that way, and then there's the problem of brine (or salt) disposal. Maybe for secondary oil recovery
Oh yes, that seawater will have to come from Mexico because apparently the US Clean Water Act makes seawater cooling impractical. As we speak, California is figuring out how to close all of its coastal power plants (except the nukes) and still keep the lights on.
Len Gould 11.8.09
Jack: How about a canal from Gulf of California to death valley?
James Carson 11.8.09
Len: I can already hear the screams from the eco-nuts about how that would foul the delicate balance of Death Valley's ecology.
Ferdinand E. Banks 11.9.09
Bill Payne
I remember hearing that shale oil would/could solve the US oill problem, but it didn't and couldn't because of problems with water.
Now it's shale gas. I don't have an unambiguous answer here, but I remember what I tell my students. If it is economics, and you don't have an answer, just say SUPPLY AND DEMAND. If it is something else, like shale gas for instance, just say SEX OR MONEY. I think that MONEY is the answer this time. People want to hear that instead of a scarcity of gas, there is actually all that we will need for the rest of this century, and the hustlers and fixers are going to make sure that they hear exactly that.